Pontiac G8 Forum: G8 Forums - G8Board.com - View Single Post - Brembo 345mm front brakes - new option
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post #63 of (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
inov8rPPV
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Canton GA
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMpowered View Post
...for clarification, if I search for brake pads for a "2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V or 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP" they will basically be D1001 pads and work?

It's interesting to me that cts-vsport pads wouldn't work?

I want to be able to shop for a larger verity of manufacturers pads. not just what's on rock auto.

I'd love to find carbotech bobcats, I have them now and are fantastic. Pricey but hey it's only every 75k miles or so. any comparable alternative would be great as well.

I need to make a decision on drilling out mounting holes to 14mm, but I'm starting to lean towards taking the plunge. My caliper/mounting brackets are starting to get play so I was intending to replace regardless... So there is no better time for the upgrade then now.

Question: this drilled out mounting hole would also have to be tapped correct? My understanding it that the mounting bolts are threaded as apposed to through bolts with a shank for use with a nut.

~J
J/GMp,

At the risk of creating further confusion - I apologize for the length of my writing, for the TLDR crowd. It's a habit from my technical background--details matter.

There are 2 distinct front caliper (4-piston) variants involved in this discussion, and BOTH accommodate the same pad family--the original D1001 & the spin-off D1474 variant. The difference is that the later Alpha/C7 caliper family is used with different rotors (both rotor diameter & hat height) than the earlier Zeta VE/VF/PPV fitments.

Historically, the CTS-V & VE/G8 GXP, as fitted from 2004 to 2009, used the "same" Brembo caliper, clamping a 355x32 rotor. The pad spec for these applications is FMSI D1001 (FMSI - Friction Materials Standards Institute).

After 2010, with first the Gen5 Camaro, and then with the VF Chevy SS, FMSI D1474 was introduced, first with "large" dampers--aka Roller Skates--as found on 10-15 Camaro with 20" wheels, and in 2014 the D1474A pad, with smaller dampers, was introduced for the SS sedan, running 19" wheels--both still using the 355x32 rotor as found on CTS-V & GXP previously.

This pad family, D1001/D1474A, is also one of the variants for the C7 Corvette, which began using Brembo calipers as standard spec in 2014, as well as the Alpha platform vehicles spec'd with Brembo brakes--the newer Brembo 4-piston caliper is fitted on 321mm or 345mm rotors on Alpha, and 321 or 345mm rotors on C7--and neither of these rotor applications is compatible with the Zeta platform.

D1001 & D1474 are the same pad plate, with exception of the damper provisions, but as far as fit/form/function, either pad will fit from 2004 CTS-V all the way to current production C7 & Alpha vehicles using Brembo front calipers. Friction material formulations & PN's are not necessarily the same, across the spectrum of GM PN's that would technically "fit" for your project.

OE/production pads for Brembo brakes are typically marked as Brembo-sourced parts, and may or may not have friction specs....most I have seen are listed as HP1000, which is a Ferodo (supplier to Brembo) friction material. Obviously, OEM pads are more costly, but I'll just say "you get what you pay for". Not to say the Brembo or OEM spec is superior, and there are downside issues that other pads seem to address, depending on what you're after. Dust, rotor wear, noise, etc--no single pad is perfect, and if you chase one characteristic over another, it changes how the pads perform--ceramic pads satisfy many as far as dust & rotor wear, but definitely do not offer the "bite" or thermal range of a more aggressive pad material like HP1000.

The reality is that MANY pads listed in Rock Auto, for example, actually contain the FMSI spec (D1001 or D1474) in the part number, even some ACDelco pads, but NOT any "OEM" part numbers--GM/ACD production front pads are "commodity group" 171, as in 1711141, which is spec D1474A (for Heavy Duty brakes) for C7 Corvette (with small pad dampers).

1711141 - https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...sn=700&jsn=700

The equivalent ACDelco aftermarket pad is 17D1474AM--NOT the same pad material but same fitment. The FMSI spec is an embedded part of the PN, as previously mentioned. The ACD part is read as 17 (brake group), D (disc), the FMSI spec, and M (Metallic).

17D1474AM - https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...294410&jsn=697

Pad plate comparisons (Hawk) - disregard the pad friction spec (G), price, or end of vehicle shown for fitment

D1001 https://www.hawkperformance.com/pads/hb453g-585

D1474 https://www.hawkperformance.com/pads/hb726g-582

D1474A https://www.hawkperformance.com/pads/hb787g-582

As for your question about why CTS-VSport pads "won't work", that is not correct--here's a Buyer's Guide list for one pad (Centric), for example, showing the D1001 pad as fitment for both the VSport & G8 GXP: Rock Auto listing
CENTRIC 10610010 Brake Pad (J56 front Brembo caliper/CTS V-Sport)
ACURA TL 2004-2008
BUICK REGAL 2012-2017
BUICK REGAL SPORTBACK 2018-2019
CADILLAC ATS 2013-2019
CADILLAC CT6 2016-2019
CADILLAC CTS 2004-2019
CADILLAC STS 2006-2011
CADILLAC XTS 2013-2019
CHEVROLET CAMARO 2016-2019
CHEVROLET CORVETTE 2014-2019
FORD GT 2005-2006
FORD MUSTANG 2007-2014
HONDA CIVIC 2017-2018
HYUNDAI GENESIS COUPE 2010-2014
MITSUBISHI LANCER 2003-2015
PONTIAC G8 2009
SAAB 9-5 2011
SUBARU BRZ 2017-2018
SUBARU IMPREZA 2004-2014
SUBARU WRX 2015
SUBARU WRX STI 2014-2017
TOYOTA 86 2019
VOLVO S60 2004-2007
VOLVO V70 2004-2007

Bottom line--D1001 pads were the original spec, and what was used on CTS-V & G8, and a wide range of other vehicles. There are PLENTY of pad sources/options that you can use, and a lookup via CTS-V or GXP will yield exactly what you're looking for, as shown here for Carbotech. Spec 1521 is the "Bobcat" friction formulation, their lowest grade offered.

Carbotech Performance Brakes: Products-Brembo Calipers Brake Pads & Shoes
EVO VIII/IX/X, CTS-V Caliper - .630"/16mm B: CT1001A
$177
Gran Turismo Large 4-piston
All Years

Carbotech Performance Brakes: Products-Pontiac Brake Pads & Shoes
G8 GXP - Brembo Calipers F: CT1001 (2009)

Carbotech Performance Brakes: Products-Cadillac Brake Pads & Shoes
CTS-V Brembo 4-piston Caliper F: CT1001A (2004-2007)

What I cannot answer about the Carbotech listings above is the difference in D1001 & D1001A. It appears that D1001A is thicker, but correct spec pad for D1001 is 0.585", to my knowledge, and D1001A is 0.630". This is a question to inquire directly with Carbotech before making a purchase decision.

Hawk listing for reference

MOUNTING HOLES
Regarding drilling out the mounting holes in the front upright/knuckle/spindle, they are NOT threaded. The threads are in the caliper abutment(s) on the car now, and on the Brembo caliper body "ears"--the newer caliper version that you would be using with the 345mm PPV rotors actually has steel inserts that are threaded, unlike the earlier generation Brembo calipers, which tapped the aluminum casting directly. Stronger with the steel inserts! No nuts are used for caliper mounting.

You might consider looking into using a pair of 2011-2013 PPV front knuckles, which would directly replace the G8 knuckles, and already have the 14mm holes for caliper mounting.

Bill Harper
[email protected]
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