Another DOD delete, I have questions - Pontiac G8 Forum: G8 Forums - G8Board.com
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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Another DOD delete, I have questions

I am going to be doing the DOD delete on my 08 GT. I have already looked at a few write-ups, one in particular on this board. Everything looks pretty straightforward. I have been in many engines to varying degrees and do all my own work on my race bike, but nobody knows everything, so any tips, tricks, or pointers are very welcome.


I am at 118k with no valve train, or any engine issues, but I want be proactive, not reactive, also some more power would be nice!


That being said, my questions are related to parts. I want to have all, or at least 99.9% of what I need to do this correctly. I have not decided if I am going to use a package deal from site vendors or build a package? This is where I am unsure, does any place have a fully comprehensive DOD delete with selectable cam package? All gaskets, seals, block-offs, hoses ect?


This is seasonal driver with longish road trips possible, so I want to be sure to inspect/replace everything to insure it is done correctly.
I am also adding the AC belt tensioner to this build.


Any input is encouraged and very welcome!
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ergeoverkill View Post
I am going to be doing the DOD delete on my 08 GT. I have already looked at a few write-ups, one in particular on this board. Everything looks pretty straightforward. I have been in many engines to varying degrees and do all my own work on my race bike, but nobody knows everything, so any tips, tricks, or pointers are very welcome.


I am at 118k with no valve train, or any engine issues, but I want be proactive, not reactive, also some more power would be nice!


That being said, my questions are related to parts. I want to have all, or at least 99.9% of what I need to do this correctly. I have not decided if I am going to use a package deal from site vendors or build a package? This is where I am unsure, does any place have a fully comprehensive DOD delete with selectable cam package? All gaskets, seals, block-offs, hoses ect?


This is seasonal driver with longish road trips possible, so I want to be sure to inspect/replace everything to insure it is done correctly.
I am also adding the AC belt tensioner to this build.


Any input is encouraged and very welcome!
I'm in the same boat as you. But I remember a while back there was a thread on here about the most complete DOD delete kits out there. So far consensus was that G8only had the most complete Dod delete kit. (Valley, lifters, trays, cams, chain, rods, tensioner, gaskets.) With options to upgrade.

As for AC belt, I dunno. Some saying replacing the balancer with 25% under-driven one would also do the trick.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 11:01 AM
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Check my spreadsheet for information. The DoD stuff is at the top. Basically I got the texas speed kit which had everything but a cam and springs and got the cam and springs from aceperformance.

2009 Pacific Slate Metallic GT
219/223 .625.625 112 cam, Kook's headers, Solo mach shorty unbalanced, Rotofab CAI,
4 pot Brembos all around.
409 WHP 386 WTQ on Dynojet 248X

Nitto NT555 G2 245/35/20/275/30/20 on staggered 5th gen Camaro wheels.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 11:51 AM
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Texas Speed has a good kit and it's not going to cost any more with the extra gaskets it doesn't include. Ragnarock's list looks good to me.

I have a list that's a bit more extensive, but it depends on how much work you're doing. I pulled my engine out and did a full valvetrain rebuild and replaced both front and rear mains. I also did a bearing replacement job. Naturally, I had to buy more stuff.

SacCity Corvette sells a cover alignment tool for the front and rear that does the job at a fraction of the cost of the OEM tool. By that, I mean I have ZERO oil leaks after 2 years; sufficed to say it will never leak because of alignment.

When it came to valves and seats, I used Brownells 800 & 1000 grit lapping compound. The stuff you can get at autozone is Silicone Carbide and is best used on Iron heads. The Brownell's garnet based compound is made for rifles, but is coincidentally also great for this motor's aluminum heads because of the softer/finer material. It's not as hard as the SC material.

Personally, I favor removing the engine if you have the space. A novice engine puller should take 2 days to do it. 1 Day to remove everything, another to disconnect and remove the motor. (Not necessarily a full day of work on day 2). Mostly, it's just because you're going slow and don't want to bust anything up.

Then you can replace the cam bearings as well just be be sure you're putting good bearings up against a new cam. #2 at least is going to have a groove from the unused VVT channel in the DOD cam. Replacing the rear main seal is quite easy and a simple process.

Plus, when you inevitably come up against an over torqued and heat cycled cam retainer bolt, it's easier to work on it on a stand than in the engine bay. (Just sayin.....)

Then you can easily put in a new TQC while you're in there and even toss in a transmission oil cooler.

The problem is; it gets expensive... LOL

How much you lookin' to spend?
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'09 PSM G8 GT - OPG Intake, DOD-Delete w/ Stage 1C 218/229 .600 Lift 117.5LSA, Kooks 1 7/8 Mids, Solo Axle-Back w/ X-Pipe, SuperPro Bushings (Front and Rear). BMR Sway Bars (Red)
Power: 400HP/392TQ


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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Jova007200 View Post
Texas Speed has a good kit and it's not going to cost any more with the extra gaskets it doesn't include. Ragnarock's list looks good to me.

I have a list that's a bit more extensive, but it depends on how much work you're doing. I pulled my engine out and did a full valvetrain rebuild and replaced both front and rear mains. I also did a bearing replacement job. Naturally, I had to buy more stuff.

SacCity Corvette sells a cover alignment tool for the front and rear that does the job at a fraction of the cost of the OEM tool. By that, I mean I have ZERO oil leaks after 2 years; sufficed to say it will never leak because of alignment.

When it came to valves and seats, I used Brownells 800 & 1000 grit lapping compound. The stuff you can get at autozone is Silicone Carbide and is best used on Iron heads. The Brownell's garnet based compound is made for rifles, but is coincidentally also great for this motor's aluminum heads because of the softer/finer material. It's not as hard as the SC material.

Personally, I favor removing the engine if you have the space. A novice engine puller should take 2 days to do it. 1 Day to remove everything, another to disconnect and remove the motor. (Not necessarily a full day of work on day 2). Mostly, it's just because you're going slow and don't want to bust anything up.

Then you can replace the cam bearings as well just be be sure you're putting good bearings up against a new cam. #2 at least is going to have a groove from the unused VVT channel in the DOD cam. Replacing the rear main seal is quite easy and a simple process.

Plus, when you inevitably come up against an over torqued and heat cycled cam retainer bolt, it's easier to work on it on a stand than in the engine bay. (Just sayin.....)

Then you can easily put in a new TQC while you're in there and even toss in a transmission oil cooler.

The problem is; it gets expensive... LOL

How much you lookin' to spend?
Hi Jova, I was following your thread about the sound-deadning/ audio upgrade the other day. Helped me a ton with taking apart interior for my HSV IQ swap. Been meaning to do a deadening job myself but at the moment cannot convince myself to pull the trigger (Clips.., ssooo many F%&ing clips...). Maybe when I'm less burned out from pulling plastic and praying I'll try again. Did you complete the project? Last I saw you were on the sub woofers.
(Sorry for temporarily derailing the thread)


Back on topic!
I am also looking to do the Dod delete like the OP, though I wanted to make it more extensive by replacing some plastic bits that should be getting nearing the end of their lifespan. (Like plastic radiator, parts of AC system, and pulley drive.)

I've looked at the options of just pulling the engine out and working on it that way. But, given that I do not have a garage or a shed to hide the engine from the elements I just can't seem to work up the nerve to get the hoists/cranes and get to it. Although I think if I can rent out the cranes/hoists and take a week off, I can probably complete the everything in my backyard. What do you think? Should I try it that way or maybe just suck it up and try to do the replacements while the engine is in the car?

Thanks a ton for the informative posts man.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-23-2019, 09:14 AM
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I got my Dod delete kit from Corey @ BlueLine Performance. Very comprehensive kit and it allows you a selectable cam option. He is very responsive to inquiries and his customer service is fantastic.
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-Rob
2008 White Hot GT w/ Premium Pkg. 185k miles and counting!
Blueline Performance DoD delete deluxe pkg w/ "The Probationary" Cam, Pypes Headers, Spectre Intake, ZL1 fuel pump

Tuned by Bob at Next Gen Built Performance
383whp/385wtq


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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-23-2019, 10:01 AM
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Many sources of the parts, seems everyone is the "best". While sourced my own, I found Greg at Pace performance (GM dealer) very helpful.

Back on topic, most site replacing the DOD for reliability, then install cam with lift beyond GM spec.- yet install LS7 lifters which are designed based on the GM cam. Look around, many examples of LS7 lifter fails with aftermarket cams. If you want reliability, add Johnson lifters to the parts list.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-23-2019, 10:36 AM
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If I could do it over I would have spent the extra on the Johnson Lifters, but I bridged the gap with the Chevy Performance Lifters. They're not ticking, but they probably won't last any longer than the springs. I didn't put 400lb dual springs on them, and .600 lift shouldn't be TOO bad on them.

So yeah, I'd consider the Johnson lifters. It's a couple hundred bucks more. Not a big deal, really.

Plus, the Johnson lifters will maintain better lift over their lifespan. I'm pretty sure there is plenty literature out there to support Johnson Lifters over LS7s.

I felt it was an informed decision and calculated risk at the time, but you should consider it accordingly.

'09 PSM G8 GT - OPG Intake, DOD-Delete w/ Stage 1C 218/229 .600 Lift 117.5LSA, Kooks 1 7/8 Mids, Solo Axle-Back w/ X-Pipe, SuperPro Bushings (Front and Rear). BMR Sway Bars (Red)
Power: 400HP/392TQ


"If you want to criticize someone else's work, be sure that your own is in order first."

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 12:20 PM
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I didn't pull the engine when I did my DOD delete and it wasn't too hard. If I had it to do over again and had the money I would do the Johnson lifters and have the heads ported since you will already have them off. Cam and heads is a nice power increase.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 01:25 PM
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Personally, if the OP has a garage or other enclosed space to do the work, he should look at pulling it. It makes it easier to add a higher stall torque converter to match the cam power band better than the stock TQC will; easy peasy

It's not a whole heck of a lot of extra work, and it leaves no question as to the condition of the block and internals. It's just a tad costly, but selling the hoist and stand can recover most of that extra cost.

It's not required, but it's better to work on the motor on a stand while sitting on a little stool with easy access and ability to clean up the block.

I'm biased, but I pulled it, and I promise for a technically inclined person willing to do a DOD Delete on their own it isn't difficult at all. Just tedious.

'09 PSM G8 GT - OPG Intake, DOD-Delete w/ Stage 1C 218/229 .600 Lift 117.5LSA, Kooks 1 7/8 Mids, Solo Axle-Back w/ X-Pipe, SuperPro Bushings (Front and Rear). BMR Sway Bars (Red)
Power: 400HP/392TQ


"If you want to criticize someone else's work, be sure that your own is in order first."

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnagexz View Post
I'm in the same boat as you. But I remember a while back there was a thread on here about the most complete DOD delete kits out there. So far consensus was that G8only had the most complete Dod delete kit. (Valley, lifters, trays, cams, chain, rods, tensioner, gaskets.) With options to upgrade.

As for AC belt, I dunno. Some saying replacing the balancer with 25% under-driven one would also do the trick.

I am not looking for under-drive gains with the AC tensioner. My problem is the belt has and continues to come off with the slightest stab of the accelerator. I have already ordered the dual tensioner set-up from Holden parts USA, https://holdenpartsusa.com/collectio...ner-kit-w-belt
I have read some instances of the stock tensioner doing damage when the belt comes off, and if this is true I am lucky, if not true, then no longer having to put the belt back on is enough to warrant the cost for me. I only drive in the summer, so AC is in use!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarock46 View Post
Check my spreadsheet for information. The DoD stuff is at the top. Basically I got the texas speed kit which had everything but a cam and springs and got the cam and springs from aceperformance.

Thanks for the spreadsheet! A couple questions,
The new Melling pump, was this done in a need for a failing part, preemptive replacement, or something you wanted to do?
Pushrod checker, were you just being double sure of correctly placing various lengths, or did you re-use original rods?
I have seen numerous mentions of Johnson lifters, what did you use, or recommend other than what you used if different?
Thanks again for the sheet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jova007200 View Post
Texas Speed has a good kit and it's not going to cost any more with the extra gaskets it doesn't include. Ragnarock's list looks good to me.

I have a list that's a bit more extensive, but it depends on how much work you're doing. I pulled my engine out and did a full valvetrain rebuild and replaced both front and rear mains. I also did a bearing replacement job. Naturally, I had to buy more stuff.

SacCity Corvette sells a cover alignment tool for the front and rear that does the job at a fraction of the cost of the OEM tool. By that, I mean I have ZERO oil leaks after 2 years; sufficed to say it will never leak because of alignment.

When it came to valves and seats, I used Brownells 800 & 1000 grit lapping compound. The stuff you can get at autozone is Silicone Carbide and is best used on Iron heads. The Brownell's garnet based compound is made for rifles, but is coincidentally also great for this motor's aluminum heads because of the softer/finer material. It's not as hard as the SC material.

Personally, I favor removing the engine if you have the space. A novice engine puller should take 2 days to do it. 1 Day to remove everything, another to disconnect and remove the motor. (Not necessarily a full day of work on day 2). Mostly, it's just because you're going slow and don't want to bust anything up.

Then you can replace the cam bearings as well just be be sure you're putting good bearings up against a new cam. #2 at least is going to have a groove from the unused VVT channel in the DOD cam. Replacing the rear main seal is quite easy and a simple process.

Plus, when you inevitably come up against an over torqued and heat cycled cam retainer bolt, it's easier to work on it on a stand than in the engine bay. (Just sayin.....)

Then you can easily put in a new TQC while you're in there and even toss in a transmission oil cooler.

The problem is; it gets expensive... LOL

How much you lookin' to spend?

Obviously I am trying not to break the bank cost wise, with that said, I want to do things correctly the first time, so if it is a bit more, I will spend it. I am not looking for big, if any gains, simply want to head off any future problems (DOD failure) and if I can get any gains, so much the better. I plan to keep this beauty indefinitely, and the miles will pile on in short and long distances, so dependability is also something I am doing this work for.




Quote:
Originally Posted by JCMG8 View Post
Many sources of the parts, seems everyone is the "best". While sourced my own, I found Greg at Pace performance (GM dealer) very helpful.

Back on topic, most site replacing the DOD for reliability, then install cam with lift beyond GM spec.- yet install LS7 lifters which are designed based on the GM cam. Look around, many examples of LS7 lifter fails with aftermarket cams. If you want reliability, add Johnson lifters to the parts list.

So are the Johnson lifters something to be used in general, or more of a higher performance application?




Quote:
Originally Posted by TNGirl View Post
I didn't pull the engine when I did my DOD delete and it wasn't too hard. If I had it to do over again and had the money I would do the Johnson lifters and have the heads ported since you will already have them off. Cam and heads is a nice power increase.

Same question as for JCMG8, Johnson lifters for higher performance or reliability?
Thanks everyone for all the replies and information, sorry for the delay in response, work has been fortunately, booming!!
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 07:50 AM
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Not to butt in on somebody else's answer.... Since you say gains aren't super important, you probably don't need to worry about Johnson Lifters.

Thinking about it further, I probably decided to stay away from Johnson Lifters because the LS7 spring pressure and cam specs were similar enough to mine that I didn't feel it was necessary. I also didn't place 400lb springs on them. I just second guess myself a lot.

Though JCMG8 is right, a lot of folks are putting high duration, high lift cams with heavy springs on LS7 lifters, and they're seeing failure in about 20-30% of the normal standard. (100,000 Mile Standard). They are the ones that need the Johnson Lifters.

You can probably be happy with another LS Cam with better than the DOD specs and the Delphi lifters will be just fine.

'09 PSM G8 GT - OPG Intake, DOD-Delete w/ Stage 1C 218/229 .600 Lift 117.5LSA, Kooks 1 7/8 Mids, Solo Axle-Back w/ X-Pipe, SuperPro Bushings (Front and Rear). BMR Sway Bars (Red)
Power: 400HP/392TQ


"If you want to criticize someone else's work, be sure that your own is in order first."

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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ergeoverkill View Post
Thanks for the spreadsheet! A couple questions,
The new Melling pump, was this done in a need for a failing part, preemptive replacement, or something you wanted to do?
Pushrod checker, were you just being double sure of correctly placing various lengths, or did you re-use original rods?
I have seen numerous mentions of Johnson lifters, what did you use, or recommend other than what you used if different?
Thanks again for the sheet

I figured while I had the pump off I might as well upgrade. I don't think you need a high pressure, but that is what I went for. I asked another user that had similar mods what their pushrod length was and verified that it would work with the checker. Everyone said to verify, so I did. I believe the lifters included in the Texas speed kit are LS7 lifters. My build is pretty cookie cutter, but it works and I am happy with it.

2009 Pacific Slate Metallic GT
219/223 .625.625 112 cam, Kook's headers, Solo mach shorty unbalanced, Rotofab CAI,
4 pot Brembos all around.
409 WHP 386 WTQ on Dynojet 248X

Nitto NT555 G2 245/35/20/275/30/20 on staggered 5th gen Camaro wheels.
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