New motor build - Pontiac G8 Forum: G8 Forums - G8Board.com
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 06:34 AM Thread Starter
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New motor build

So last week cylinders 1 and 2 decided they didn't like the comfy confines of my cylinder block and decided to harshly exit the block through the oil pan. Not sure exactly what happened on my mild cam only build that has been running great for the last 50,000 miles. I just sent the heads out to hopefully be repaired (machine shop said definitely fixable from the pics i sent). I have a local source that has a few fresh from the machine shop blocks waiting for homes so I'm covered there. trying to plan out this new build and stay within a a 5k budget. I want something reliable "N/A", no boost and a mild street cam that I can enjoy without being too high strung and afraid that I will break something again. A few months prior I had reached out to a couple cam suppliers when I was thinking of rebuilding my now bad engine. Based off of my cam sheet I was spec'd a
219/223 612/599 112+1.
Now that my heads will have to be resurfaced and milled, I'm sure that changes things. I won't know how much until they come back of course but would a cam like that be affected by milled heads in a good way or bad way?
Also, I have the choice of either going 6.0 again or 6.2. There's a $500 difference in the cost between the 2. However, being on a budget, I need to save every penny I can so I can have a running, driving, TUNED car with little to no overspending. Are those .2 liters that much better than the 6.0 that I should I splurge on it?

2009 LR GT,Red/Onyx, Sport, Roof
Vararam, pypes headers, Borla X pipe, 2014 SS mufflers, Pat G custom cam, 3.45 Camaro diff, Powerhaus/ Sky tune
Koni yellows, H&R springs (cut dead coil), Polyelast strut bushings, BMR Toe Rods and Trailing arms, Whiteline radius rod, front lower control arm and rear cradle bushings, GXP Front Bumper and Diffuser,
Axis 18's, 255/40 (front), 275/40 (rear) Firestone Indy 500 Tires

12.29 @ 114
1.9 60 ft
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 10:45 AM
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Being in a similar situation... I'm sticking with the 6.0, giving it forged guts (stock crank still), and spending the "extra" money on Johnson lifters, ATI balancer, ARP main studs, etc. All the stuff that hopefully aids in that "hop in and go" capability.

I don't think anyone would say that the 6.2 is a bad idea, but if it's a matter of going 6.2 or getting better parts for the 6.0, I'd take the better parts. Or... what are you doing for a converter?

2009 PBM GT
Under the Knife Again
DOD-delete, , Roto-Fab, BLP Ported Intake and Throttle Body, Kooks 1-7/8 long tubes, XForce Varex Catback, ZL1 Converter, Elite E2 Catch Can, HSRK, Camaro Trans Pan/Filter, GXP Brembos, Cold Case Radiator
Breyton GTS-AV Wheels, 6k HIDs, Holden Steering Wheel and Paddle Shifters, Eibach Springs, 35% Tint
Tuned by Day Tuning

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebg8gt View Post
Being in a similar situation... I'm sticking with the 6.0, giving it forged guts (stock crank still), and spending the "extra" money on Johnson lifters, ATI balancer, ARP main studs, etc. All the stuff that hopefully aids in that "hop in and go" capability.

I don't think anyone would say that the 6.2 is a bad idea, but if it's a matter of going 6.2 or getting better parts for the 6.0, I'd take the better parts. Or... what are you doing for a converter?
I hear what you're saying about saving the $500 for better parts and I'm kind of swaying towards staying with the 6.0. The cam that's listed above is spec'd for the stock stall. For the type of driving I do, a stall converter does not make any sense and would actually be counterproductive towards my cause. I drove my first cam, converter car two weekends ago (3200 stall) and while it was really, really fun in straight line, that all ended as soon as I put it in manual and wanted to take curves. I don't think the car will ever see a drag strip on real tire ever again. Just not my cup o' tea i guess. Don't think I'm splurging for Johnson lifters or an ATI balancer, rather save that extra coin for the tune.

2009 LR GT,Red/Onyx, Sport, Roof
Vararam, pypes headers, Borla X pipe, 2014 SS mufflers, Pat G custom cam, 3.45 Camaro diff, Powerhaus/ Sky tune
Koni yellows, H&R springs (cut dead coil), Polyelast strut bushings, BMR Toe Rods and Trailing arms, Whiteline radius rod, front lower control arm and rear cradle bushings, GXP Front Bumper and Diffuser,
Axis 18's, 255/40 (front), 275/40 (rear) Firestone Indy 500 Tires

12.29 @ 114
1.9 60 ft
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAYDBPR View Post
I hear what you're saying about saving the $500 for better parts and I'm kind of swaying towards staying with the 6.0. The cam that's listed above is spec'd for the stock stall. For the type of driving I do, a stall converter does not make any sense and would actually be counterproductive towards my cause. I drove my first cam, converter car two weekends ago (3200 stall) and while it was really, really fun in straight line, that all ended as soon as I put it in manual and wanted to take curves. I don't think the car will ever see a drag strip on real tire ever again. Just not my cup o' tea i guess. Don't think I'm splurging for Johnson lifters or an ATI balancer, rather save that extra coin for the tune.
Yeah, there are days I wish I still had the stock converter for that reason, but I do enjoy the ZL1 converter. Manual mode still works nicely, and the stronger lockup is pretty nice too. Tuning of course makes a big difference.

In my case, I went with things like the ATI balancer because I got the LSA version that I can simply bolt the supercharger drive pulley to when I'm ready. Other things like the lifters were the "while you're in there stuff". I don't want to be "back in there" any time soon.

Not sure I even want to open this can of worms, but.... who's going to tune it? lol

2009 PBM GT
Under the Knife Again
DOD-delete, , Roto-Fab, BLP Ported Intake and Throttle Body, Kooks 1-7/8 long tubes, XForce Varex Catback, ZL1 Converter, Elite E2 Catch Can, HSRK, Camaro Trans Pan/Filter, GXP Brembos, Cold Case Radiator
Breyton GTS-AV Wheels, 6k HIDs, Holden Steering Wheel and Paddle Shifters, Eibach Springs, 35% Tint
Tuned by Day Tuning

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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I thought about the ZL1 converter but the gain vs cost wouldn't be worth it in my opinion. I was told that the cam I was spec'd will surge even less than the one I have now and it's been pretty comfortable with the OE converter. I have no plans to go FI and just want something with a little more power and to run well for another few years. I'm working on getting Jeremy Formato from Fasterproms to tune it.
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2009 LR GT,Red/Onyx, Sport, Roof
Vararam, pypes headers, Borla X pipe, 2014 SS mufflers, Pat G custom cam, 3.45 Camaro diff, Powerhaus/ Sky tune
Koni yellows, H&R springs (cut dead coil), Polyelast strut bushings, BMR Toe Rods and Trailing arms, Whiteline radius rod, front lower control arm and rear cradle bushings, GXP Front Bumper and Diffuser,
Axis 18's, 255/40 (front), 275/40 (rear) Firestone Indy 500 Tires

12.29 @ 114
1.9 60 ft
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAYDBPR View Post
I thought about the ZL1 converter but the gain vs cost wouldn't be worth it in my opinion. I was told that the cam I was spec'd will surge even less than the one I have now and it's been pretty comfortable with the OE converter. I have no plans to go FI and just want something with a little more power and to run well for another few years. I'm working on getting Jeremy Formato from Fasterproms to tune it.
I was going to keep my stock converter originally as well, but then I lucked into a local sale on a basically new ZL1. So I jumped on it.

Awesome on Jeremy, and hoping he'll post a video of a certain blue G8 he just tuned.

2009 PBM GT
Under the Knife Again
DOD-delete, , Roto-Fab, BLP Ported Intake and Throttle Body, Kooks 1-7/8 long tubes, XForce Varex Catback, ZL1 Converter, Elite E2 Catch Can, HSRK, Camaro Trans Pan/Filter, GXP Brembos, Cold Case Radiator
Breyton GTS-AV Wheels, 6k HIDs, Holden Steering Wheel and Paddle Shifters, Eibach Springs, 35% Tint
Tuned by Day Tuning

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebg8gt View Post
I was going to keep my stock converter originally as well, but then I lucked into a local sale on a basically new ZL1. So I jumped on it.

Awesome on Jeremy, and hoping he'll post a video of a certain blue G8 he just tuned.
Yea, if I was looking into an LSA build I would definitely go with a ZL1 converter. Sounds like you're gonna have a really nice setup in the future. There was a picture of it on the last video, would be nice to see it run on the dyno for sure.

2009 LR GT,Red/Onyx, Sport, Roof
Vararam, pypes headers, Borla X pipe, 2014 SS mufflers, Pat G custom cam, 3.45 Camaro diff, Powerhaus/ Sky tune
Koni yellows, H&R springs (cut dead coil), Polyelast strut bushings, BMR Toe Rods and Trailing arms, Whiteline radius rod, front lower control arm and rear cradle bushings, GXP Front Bumper and Diffuser,
Axis 18's, 255/40 (front), 275/40 (rear) Firestone Indy 500 Tires

12.29 @ 114
1.9 60 ft
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-19-2019, 06:43 AM
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I noticed no one answered your question about milling the heads. Yes, as a matter of fact if you can mill them a LOT that is a good thing. Many on here have done it, Rick G - which your new cam specs look very close to - recommended a .035" mill which is what I did. Our motors are a bit low on compression, as they are using heads designed for a 6.2L on a 6.0L. So in the LS3 the CR is 10.7:1 while ours is 10.4. Once you increase cam timing you are bleeding off more cylinder pressure at low rpm due to later intake valve closing, which can in particular make for a soggy bottom end. That is why you will usually seem recommended CRs rise as cam timing rises.... So in short, yes, with a cam you want more CR. Milling .035" took my CR up to 11.1:1. And I love it, lots of part-throttle "pop" at low RPM. In theory a higher CR should make a touch more torque and power. Now, the downside is less piston-to-valve clearance. I measured mine and I'm around the minimum recommended. There is no problem sealing the intake - confirmed with Rick and I've had no problems sealing (traditionally if one mills heads that much one would need to get their intake manifold angle milled).

2009 SRM G8 GT, GMPP CNC heads milled .035", RCR backcut intake valves, RCR Lunati 219/223 .612/.615 112+1, PSI 1511ML springs, Ti retainers, BTR 7.375 pushrods, Straub trunion bushings, RCR Airram intake, IWIS chain, Melling hi-vol hi-pressure oil pump, oil bypass blockoff, LS7 MAF in Spectre 4", Blox velocity stack, Rotofab, Kooks 1-3/4" LT's, Kooks catted X, Hooker Maxflow axlebacks. 426/383.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-19-2019, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgeorger View Post
I noticed no one answered your question about milling the heads. Yes, as a matter of fact if you can mill them a LOT that is a good thing. Many on here have done it, Rick G - which your new cam specs look very close to - recommended a .035" mill which is what I did. Our motors are a bit low on compression, as they are using heads designed for a 6.2L on a 6.0L. So in the LS3 the CR is 10.7:1 while ours is 10.4. Once you increase cam timing you are bleeding off more cylinder pressure at low rpm due to later intake valve closing, which can in particular make for a soggy bottom end. That is why you will usually seem recommended CRs rise as cam timing rises.... So in short, yes, with a cam you want more CR. Milling .035" took my CR up to 11.1:1. And I love it, lots of part-throttle "pop" at low RPM. In theory a higher CR should make a touch more torque and power. Now, the downside is less piston-to-valve clearance. I measured mine and I'm around the minimum recommended. There is no problem sealing the intake - confirmed with Rick and I've had no problems sealing (traditionally if one mills heads that much one would need to get their intake manifold angle milled).
Thanks for the reply. My cam supplier who works with Rick said that cam will have no PTV clearance issues. I've never heard anyone in the G8/L76/LS3 world mention any issues with the intake sealing after milling heads. .035 is the MAX I would go on these heads and my quest for a reliable street build.

2009 LR GT,Red/Onyx, Sport, Roof
Vararam, pypes headers, Borla X pipe, 2014 SS mufflers, Pat G custom cam, 3.45 Camaro diff, Powerhaus/ Sky tune
Koni yellows, H&R springs (cut dead coil), Polyelast strut bushings, BMR Toe Rods and Trailing arms, Whiteline radius rod, front lower control arm and rear cradle bushings, GXP Front Bumper and Diffuser,
Axis 18's, 255/40 (front), 275/40 (rear) Firestone Indy 500 Tires

12.29 @ 114
1.9 60 ft
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