Dead clutch pedal and issues bleeding - Pontiac G8 Forum: G8 Forums - G8Board.com
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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Dead clutch pedal and issues bleeding

I know this issue has been brought up many times before. I’ve searched extensively and read up on all the issues of the dead clutch pedal but I’m at a loss here.

Background info on the car: GXP that has been extensively worked over it’s life. Motor is a crate GM L76 525 (464 RWHP). Has an LS9 slave, LS7 clutch, remote bleeder, stainless steel lines from master to slave. Master is stock AFAIK. Does NOT have Tick’st billet aluminum bearing support in the slave. Most parts are relatively new but were installed by previous owner.

Driving home earlier this week, I was in a lot of stop and go traffic. Once traffic started freeing up, I noticed the clutch pedal was going a bit soft, then it started to hang part way up (had to lift the rest of the way with my foot). It progressively got softer the more I used it. Made it the last 20 miles home this way.

I’ve been trying to bleed the system now for several days with no progress. Using a vacuum pump on the remote bleed line I’m getting an INSANE amount of air and it simply doesn’t stop. Gone through 2+ liters of Pintosin. No visible fluid leaks anywhere. Inspected the rubber line between the reservoir to the master and even cut 1” off the master side because it looked suspect. Clutch pedal has zero resistance; will drop to the floor and stay there. If I close everything up and pump the clutch pedal 50+ times it eventually builds up some resistance where it will hang only partially down. Slave will engage with this resistance (car will roll if in gear and I push the clutch pedal/stop rolling when I release). I was able to reposition the car but it was releasing almost at the floor. I have no idea where to look next except at the lines into the slave or the slave itself neither of which I’m prepared to do (dropping the tranny). I’ve read replacing the clutch, flywheel, slave, master, Monster 2 clutches, LS9 slaves with shims, bleeding; nobody seems to have a diffinitive answer. Has anybody run into this before? Any suggestions? I’m about ready to give it to a shop to figure out.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 05:34 PM
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Bad master? Do you have a way to try pressure bleeding? Where are you located?
I use a Motiv pressure bleeder. Pumping it up and watching for a pressure drop will help you look for leaks.
PS, I wish I had a remote bleeder ;-(

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 07:04 PM
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Most likely your master cylinder, especially when everything else is fairly new.

I had the same dead pedal every time I made a drag strip pass but I decided to go ahead and replace everything at once (it had 125k on it after all).


2009.5 G8 GXP SRM 6MT
-Kooks 1-7/8 LT, 3" Solo, RotoFab CAI, Full Zeta II suspension with BCs, Monster LT1-S & Tick Master Cylinder, 3.91 w/ TrueTrac
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GXPaycheck View Post
Bad master? Do you have a way to try pressure bleeding? Where are you located?
I use a Motiv pressure bleeder. Pumping it up and watching for a pressure drop will help you look for leaks.
PS, I wish I had a remote bleeder ;-(
I don’t have a pressure bleeder. Just a vacuum pump. What’s the part number of your Motiv unit? I’m in PA just north of Philly.

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Originally Posted by yutzybrian View Post
Most likely your master cylinder, especially when everything else is fairly new.

I had the same dead pedal every time I made a drag strip pass but I decided to go ahead and replace everything at once (it had 125k on it after all).
Is this the master you have? How do you like it? Daily drivable? Tick Performance Billet Adjustable Clutch Master Cylinder Kit for 2010-15 Camaro SS & ZL1 & Z28, 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP - Tick Performance, Inc.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by dukelubas View Post
Yup that's the one. It's a lot stiffer than the factory, gives you a bit of a leg workout. It also has a lot shorter travel to disengage the clutch, about half of the factory. Takes a little getting use to but I like it now and it should be perfect at the track.


2009.5 G8 GXP SRM 6MT
-Kooks 1-7/8 LT, 3" Solo, RotoFab CAI, Full Zeta II suspension with BCs, Monster LT1-S & Tick Master Cylinder, 3.91 w/ TrueTrac
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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I guess my biggest question is how I can isolate the problem between my master and my slave?

‘09 G8 GXP, L76 525 crate motor, 2” Manzo long tube headers, Solo Mach Balanced 3”, LS7 clutch, BMR trailing arms, Camero 3.45 Diff, 2015 SS axles, Firehawk rims, PatG tune, Gen2 CTS-V 6 piston fronts, Camaro 4 piston rears. 464 RWHP
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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Yup that's the one. It's a lot stiffer than the factory, gives you a bit of a leg workout. It also has a lot shorter travel to disengage the clutch, about half of the factory. Takes a little getting use to but I like it now and it should be perfect at the track.
This is my DD and I have a 110 mile round trip commute and tend to hit quite a bit of traffic so my left leg gets quite a bit of a work out already. If a stock replacement is decent I can stick with that. If there’s an upgrade out there that’s easy on the leg I’m all ears.

‘09 G8 GXP, L76 525 crate motor, 2” Manzo long tube headers, Solo Mach Balanced 3”, LS7 clutch, BMR trailing arms, Camero 3.45 Diff, 2015 SS axles, Firehawk rims, PatG tune, Gen2 CTS-V 6 piston fronts, Camaro 4 piston rears. 464 RWHP
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dukelubas View Post
This is my DD and I have a 110 mile round trip commute and tend to hit quite a bit of traffic so my left leg gets quite a bit of a work out already. If a stock replacement is decent I can stick with that. If there’s an upgrade out there that’s easy on the leg I’m all ears.
Yea in that case I'd stick with a stock. I drive 10 miles with little traffic to work. The Tick adjustable is the only other option I'm aware of.


2009.5 G8 GXP SRM 6MT
-Kooks 1-7/8 LT, 3" Solo, RotoFab CAI, Full Zeta II suspension with BCs, Monster LT1-S & Tick Master Cylinder, 3.91 w/ TrueTrac
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-21-2018, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dukelubas View Post
I don’t have a pressure bleeder. Just a vacuum pump. What’s the part number of your Motiv unit? I’m in PA just north of Philly.



Is this the master you have? How do you like it? Daily drivable? Tick Performance Billet Adjustable Clutch Master Cylinder Kit for 2010-15 Camaro SS & ZL1 & Z28, 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP - Tick Performance, Inc.
Here’s the bleeder. I forget which adapter you need. I think the Ford one works for brakes. You can search the forums here for the number.
Here’s the one I have
https://www.motiveproducts.com/colle...er-bleeder-kit

Maybe you can find someone local that has one.

Have you called Tick?

2009 G8 GXP, #715 0f 1829 (#18 of 23 as optioned), MSM, 6M, Sunroof, Onyx/Red

2009 G8 GXP, #807 of 1829 (#37 of 68 as optioned), MSM, 6A, Sunroof, Onyx

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dukelubas View Post
I don’t have a pressure bleeder. Just a vacuum pump. What’s the part number of your Motiv unit? I’m in PA just north of Philly.



Is this the master you have? How do you like it? Daily drivable? Tick Performance Billet Adjustable Clutch Master Cylinder Kit for 2010-15 Camaro SS & ZL1 & Z28, 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP - Tick Performance, Inc.
Here’s the bleeder. I forget which adapter you need. I think the Ford one works for brakes. You can search the forums here for the number.
Here’s the one I have
https://www.motiveproducts.com/colle...er-bleeder-kit

Maybe you can find someone local that has one.

Have you called Tick?
Talked to Tick this morning. Their suggestion is to try a pressure bleeder on it and/or replace the master. Also said their adjustable master is only about 10% more resistance than stock. I'll probably replace with stock since it's much cheaper and should be fine for my use. It's hard to believe a master would fail as I've owned several manuals in my day (albeit not GM cars but still) and I've never had a master go bad.

‘09 G8 GXP, L76 525 crate motor, 2” Manzo long tube headers, Solo Mach Balanced 3”, LS7 clutch, BMR trailing arms, Camero 3.45 Diff, 2015 SS axles, Firehawk rims, PatG tune, Gen2 CTS-V 6 piston fronts, Camaro 4 piston rears. 464 RWHP
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 06:18 AM
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Also said their adjustable master is only about 10% more resistance than stock.
Yea, I call bull on that percentage lol. I started a friends GXP for him the other day so he could listen for a noise and when I pushed in the clutch I about put it through the floor because I'm used to the higher resistance of mine. Stock felt way softer.


2009.5 G8 GXP SRM 6MT
-Kooks 1-7/8 LT, 3" Solo, RotoFab CAI, Full Zeta II suspension with BCs, Monster LT1-S & Tick Master Cylinder, 3.91 w/ TrueTrac
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 08:07 AM
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Yea, I call bull on that percentage lol. I started a friends GXP for him the other day so he could listen for a noise and when I pushed in the clutch I about put it through the floor because I'm used to the higher resistance of mine. Stock felt way softer.
Makes me wonder if you didn’t get a defective unit.

2009 G8 GXP, #715 0f 1829 (#18 of 23 as optioned), MSM, 6M, Sunroof, Onyx/Red

2009 G8 GXP, #807 of 1829 (#37 of 68 as optioned), MSM, 6A, Sunroof, Onyx

2016 Chevy SS, Mystic Green, roof, #555 of 2221

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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 03:41 PM
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Makes me wonder if you didn’t get a defective unit.
The first time, yes. It leaked past the seal. The replacement isn't though, I just also wouldn't say its only 10% stiffer. Maybe 20-25% would be a better number IMO.


2009.5 G8 GXP SRM 6MT
-Kooks 1-7/8 LT, 3" Solo, RotoFab CAI, Full Zeta II suspension with BCs, Monster LT1-S & Tick Master Cylinder, 3.91 w/ TrueTrac
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-02-2018, 03:43 PM Thread Starter
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Just to put closure to this issue. The clutch master was replaced with an OEM unit and it has been fixed.
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‘09 G8 GXP, L76 525 crate motor, 2” Manzo long tube headers, Solo Mach Balanced 3”, LS7 clutch, BMR trailing arms, Camero 3.45 Diff, 2015 SS axles, Firehawk rims, PatG tune, Gen2 CTS-V 6 piston fronts, Camaro 4 piston rears. 464 RWHP
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-02-2018, 04:21 PM
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Good to know!

2009 G8 GXP, #715 0f 1829 (#18 of 23 as optioned), MSM, 6M, Sunroof, Onyx/Red

2009 G8 GXP, #807 of 1829 (#37 of 68 as optioned), MSM, 6A, Sunroof, Onyx

2016 Chevy SS, Mystic Green, roof, #555 of 2221

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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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Resurrecting this one. Pedal went soft on me again. Bleeding resulted in a parade of bubbles. Same symptoms as before. Having the Tick Performance unit installed this time. Hopefully this is it. Only other thing I think it could possibly be is the slave.

‘09 G8 GXP, L76 525 crate motor, 2” Manzo long tube headers, Solo Mach Balanced 3”, LS7 clutch, BMR trailing arms, Camero 3.45 Diff, 2015 SS axles, Firehawk rims, PatG tune, Gen2 CTS-V 6 piston fronts, Camaro 4 piston rears. 464 RWHP
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 08:31 AM
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I think you'll be happy once you get it swapped out with the Tick unit. Mine is still doing great and haven't had a soft pedal yet (been the track with it twice even). I've had enough time with it now for it to just feel normal.


2009.5 G8 GXP SRM 6MT
-Kooks 1-7/8 LT, 3" Solo, RotoFab CAI, Full Zeta II suspension with BCs, Monster LT1-S & Tick Master Cylinder, 3.91 w/ TrueTrac
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dukelubas View Post
Resurrecting this one. Pedal went soft on me again. Bleeding resulted in a parade of bubbles. Same symptoms as before. Having the Tick Performance unit installed this time. Hopefully this is it. Only other thing I think it could possibly be is the slave.
Go with Monster clutch LT1-S for the GXP (rated up to 700 RWHP/RWTQ), along with the billet release bearing support and be done with it.

https://monsterclutches.com/twin-lt1s-street-gxp-clutch

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