Police brake pads, stock brakes - Page 2 - Pontiac G8 Forum: G8 Forums - G8Board.com
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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
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I have read that 2014+ caprice ppv has dual piston and giant rotors, sub 2013 caprice has big rotor single piston. Info from rock auto and the internet so I could be wrong. =D
PPV front brakes - 2011 to 2017 all the same:
- Rotor is 345mm x 30mm

- Caliper is single-piston floating design, uses a high-performance pad with Ferodo HP1000 friction material--same material spec as used on Brembo brakes found on G8 GXP & Chevy SS sedan.

Pad is FMSI D1404 spec.

Standard G8 rotor is 321mm--a good upgrade for G8 is fitting the full PPV setup, or using the PPV 345 rotors with Brembo calipers from 2016/newer Camaro SS or CTS (calipers for 345mm rotors, direct bolt-on to sedans). For G8, caliper mount bolts require opening 12mm holes in knuckles/spindles to 14mm.

Full details - the key to any brake upgrade is a larger rotor, regardless of caliper design or number of pistons.
Rock auto is doing a mislead. See pic.

I really want brembos in the future, but this is just maximizing stock system for now within budget
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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 11:28 PM
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if you click on the INFO box on one of the ACDelco calipers in that screen capture, you'll see that the specs read Piston Quantity = 1.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...298519&jsn=466

I don't think RA is intentionally misleading, just the art work is not correct - an easy screw-up. Other listings in different categories (above the Performance category) do show a single-piston caliper.

The ACDelco OEM PPV front calipers are listed, 100% new, with brackets, for $130 each, PN 1722519 & 1722520. For a quick, easy, and robust upgrade, add the correct D1404 pads and 345 PPV rotors. Weighs more overall, but rotor mass increase is the real key....improves thermal characteristics of the front brakes significantly.

In reality, there IS a 2-piston option from 2nd gen Cadillac CTS--even uses the same 345mm PPV rotor, and even though I bought some parts, I never followed through--Brembo just seemed to make more sense. The 2-piston Caddy calipers are VERY heavy, full cast-iron, just as the single-piston PPV caliper is--the single caliper is also standard on Gen5 LS/LT Camaro (V6) - same pad spec as PPV, but the Camaro used a 321mm rotor, so it had a different abutment bracket.

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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 07:26 PM
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[QUOTE=Turboner;3678297]Ok so after about a km of driving and bedding; half the pedal pressure starts the abs working. MUCH BETTER THAN WHATEVER CAME WITH THE CAR.

I highly recommend

Why does the abs activate? Do you mean the brakes work so good that they lock the tires up?

I have been looking at the brake performance dimpled/slotted rotors and accompanying pads but haven’t pulled the trigger.

If this option is better I might go with that as I am not too keen on slotted rotors.
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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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Why does the abs activate? Do you mean the brakes work so good that they lock the tires up?

I have been looking at the brake performance dimpled/slotted rotors and accompanying pads but haven’t pulled the trigger.

If this option is better I might go with that as I am not too keen on slotted rotors.
Yes the wheels will lock up easily then boom ABS saves me from flat spotted tires. Old pads id stand on the pedal and stop in the next town
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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 08:21 PM
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[quote=zachd123;3678649]
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Why does the abs activate? Do you mean the brakes work so good that they lock the tires up?
The point is this--braking performance can only be as good as the relationship between the tire and road surface....so, what tires are on the car, and what is the road surface where maximum braking effort is being attempted? What is tire treadwear rating, inflation pressures, etc.... ?

If the tire can't maintain traction with the road surface--whether a function of the tire OR the road surface--once the wheel locks, ABS kicks in. With the new (more aggressive) brake pads, the available braking force apparently overwhelms the contact patch, so the wheel stops turning and ABS does what it is supposed to do to keep the wheel rolling.

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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 02:49 PM
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Here's the thing
BENDIX:
$120 shipped front AND rear pads

HAWK HP+
$120 front
$120 rear

And bendix has been tested by the police. By all means go for hawk pads, we all know they are great, I just found what i believe is a cheap alternative
Went to Rockauto, the Bendix police pads are listed as $25 for fronts and $25 for the rears. What am I missing?
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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Turboner View Post
Here's the thing
BENDIX:
$120 shipped front AND rear pads

HAWK HP+
$120 front
$120 rear

And bendix has been tested by the police. By all means go for hawk pads, we all know they are great, I just found what i believe is a cheap alternative
Went to Rockauto, the Bendix police pads are listed as $25 for fronts and $25 for the rears. What am I missing?
Taxes duties and exchange rate.
I am in Canada so I paid in CND.

Last edited by Turboner; 05-09-2019 at 04:30 PM.
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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 07:44 PM
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OK, thanks that explains it.

For $50 US, I can deal with the dust. The Carbotech 1521s apparently donít have the dusting but then they are over $300.
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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-10-2019, 07:07 AM
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OK, thanks that explains it.

For $50 US, I can deal with the dust. The Carbotech 1521s apparently don’t have the dusting but then they are over $300.
This may be an apples to oranges comparison--are you finding that the Carbotech 1521 pad for stock G8 (FMSI D1351) is $300+? I'm waiting for a response from CT to confirm pricing. It's easy to understand that there are a broad range of pad options at many price points, and, as you indicate, it's not a difficult choice to deal with the potential downside(s) of a less costly option.

The Brembo application pads in the 1521 variant are under $200, per info here--this is for Brembo caliper fitment:

https://www.g8board.com/forums/3678547-post63.html

as shown here for Carbotech. Spec 1521 is the "Bobcat" friction formulation, their lowest grade offered.

Carbotech Performance Brakes: Products-Brembo Calipers Brake Pads & Shoes
EVO VIII/IX/X, CTS-V Caliper - .630"/16mm B: CT1001A
$177
Gran Turismo Large 4-piston
All Years

Carbotech Performance Brakes: Products-Pontiac Brake Pads & Shoes
G8 GXP - Brembo Calipers F: CT1001 (2009)

Carbotech Performance Brakes: Products-Cadillac Brake Pads & Shoes
CTS-V Brembo 4-piston Caliper F: CT1001A (2004-2007)

What I cannot answer about the Carbotech listings above is the difference in D1001 & D1001A. It appears that D1001A is thicker, but correct spec pad for D1001 is 0.585", to my knowledge, and D1001A is 0.630". This is a question to inquire directly with Carbotech before making a purchase decision.

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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-10-2019, 08:08 AM
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The last time I looked (quite a while ago), Carbotech 1521s for my stock GT were over $300. If they are cheaper now, that would be good to know. But $50 for a set of Bendix police pads is hard to beat and considering the low miles I put on my GT (only 35K miles now), I can deal with the dust.
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post #31 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-10-2019, 08:38 AM
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The last time I looked (quite a while ago), Carbotech 1521s for my stock GT were over $300. If they are cheaper now, that would be good to know. But $50 for a set of Bendix police pads is hard to beat and considering the low miles I put on my GT (only 35K miles now), I can deal with the dust.
Exactly....totally understand.

There are at least a couple of phrases that come to mind that may or may not apply, as it depends on the direction of approach to the issue--defined as best bang for the buck vs best for the purpose/best performance, or another attribute:

You get what you pay for (not a criticism of anyone for being "cheap"....)

A fool and his money are soon parted

Add your own here:

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post #32 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-10-2019, 12:26 PM
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So if I understand correctly, we have the option to upgrade the calipers on our G8 with the PPV version and then putting the 345mm rotors? I have Camaro wheels so I'm guessing fitment won't be an issue.

That is good info, I was not aware of that option.

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post #33 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 06:57 AM
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I was not aware of that option.
In reality, using the PPV 345mm front rotors gives you 2 options--using the PPV single-piston floating caliper, or using the Alpha CTS/Camaro 4-piston fixed Brembo caliper made specifically to fit 345mm diameter rotors--just to clarify, once again, this is a different parts combination than used on the GXP, which also included specific 19" wheels for caliper clearance.

With the single-piston option, there will be NO wheel clearance issues. Test fitting has indicated that the 345/Brembo combination described here will require a hub spacer for OE G8 5-spoke 18/19 wheels.

A last reminder--both caliper options use 14mm bolts for mounting, so the G8 knuckle will require enlargement of the 2 holes that are currently sized for 12mm bolts.

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post #34 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 07:03 AM
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The last time I looked (quite a while ago), Carbotech 1521s for my stock GT were over $300. If they are cheaper now, that would be good to know. But $50 for a set of Bendix police pads is hard to beat and considering the low miles I put on my GT (only 35K miles now), I can deal with the dust.
Response to an inquiry made directly to CarboTech:
The CT1351-1521 retail for $208. We do offer club and forum discounts if you buy directly from us. We would have to make these, 2-3 days to have them ready to ship.

My listings show the same 4 pot Brembo, the CT1001 for both the CTS-V (2004 edition) and the GXP. If you're looking for the 1521 in that pad shape, they retail for $170 and are in stock.

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post #35 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 04:36 PM
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Response to an inquiry made directly to CarboTech:
The CT1351-1521 retail for $208. We do offer club and forum discounts if you buy directly from us. We would have to make these, 2-3 days to have them ready to ship.

My listings show the same 4 pot Brembo, the CT1001 for both the CTS-V (2004 edition) and the GXP. If you're looking for the 1521 in that pad shape, they retail for $170 and are in stock.
Thanks for digging into this. Iím going to change pads real soon and might spring for the 1521s.

Iím on a road trip and the factory pads are crap and transferring to the rotors on moderate braking resulting in pulsing in the pedal and the shuttering in the steering wheel. Heavier braking cleans them off. Iím doing a lot of braking on the switch backs in the Smoky Mts and Skyline Drive.
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post #36 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 12:23 PM
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OK, ordered the Bendix police pads from Rock Auto. Total cost including shipping and NY tax $79 US. Should be here by this Thursday.

I did strongly consider the Carbotech 1521s for $200 but I would also get new rotors which would push the cost to $400+. The wifey did question going the cheap route and if there was a middle brake option. I don't think so but said when the Bendix police pads need replacing, then I would go the Carbotech route with new rotors. So I will soon have the crap factory pads off and good riddance to them!
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post #37 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 04:27 PM
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OK, ordered the Bendix police pads from Rock Auto. Total cost including shipping and NY tax $79 US. Should be here by this Thursday.

I did strongly consider the Carbotech 1521s for $200 but I would also get new rotors which would push the cost to $400+. The wifey did question going the cheap route and if there was a middle brake option. I don't think so but said when the Bendix police pads need replacing, then I would go the Carbotech route with new rotors. So I will soon have the crap factory pads off and good riddance to them!
The stock setup is not the best indeed, especially at highway speeds. Seems like the brakes are jumping a bit and aren't as grippy as they should be.

I think I'm gonna get the highest quality AC Delco Rotors + Hawk HPS Pads + Russell Stainless Lines. Now that should be an improvement.

Tell us how you find the Bendix! Seems like a good product and may get those instead of Hawks. Hawks are so dusty.

2009 SRM PONTIAC G8 GT
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post #38 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 10:03 PM
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The stock setup is not the best indeed, especially at highway speeds. Seems like the brakes are jumping a bit and aren't as grippy as they should be.

I think I'm gonna get the highest quality AC Delco Rotors + Hawk HPS Pads + Russell Stainless Lines. Now that should be an improvement.

Tell us how you find the Bendix! Seems like a good product and may get those instead of Hawks. Hawks are so dusty.
Iíll post up how the Bendix pads work for me. Just want to point out Turboner has run the HPS pads on another car and says when they are cold they donít grip and he almost crashed because of that. He also said the Bendix police pads are dusty like the Hawks.
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post #39 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 10:19 PM Thread Starter
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The stock setup is not the best indeed, especially at highway speeds. Seems like the brakes are jumping a bit and aren't as grippy as they should be.

I think I'm gonna get the highest quality AC Delco Rotors + Hawk HPS Pads + Russell Stainless Lines. Now that should be an improvement.

Tell us how you find the Bendix! Seems like a good product and may get those instead of Hawks. Hawks are so dusty.
I’ll post up how the Bendix pads work for me. Just want to point out Turboner has run the HPS pads on another car and says when they are cold they don’t grip and he almost crashed because of that. He also said the Bendix police pads are dusty like the Hawks.
Yea if you go with hawks, the HP+ are great cold and for mild lapping days. With a whole lotta dust. Performance wise however the bendix Police pads feel the same with the same dust. Used them sunday to slow from 200kph to 100kph and the grabbed hard all the way no fade.
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post #40 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 01:53 PM
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I don't get on this forum as often as I used to but I need to do so.

I run DBA Slotted G8 GT rotors front and rear. I got hawk pads but I do hate them, never liked any of them. But their ceramic pads came to me cheap.

For normal DD use I used to run Wagner Thermo-Quiet series pads. They aren't as aggressive but they do work well. Good initial bite, great for normal street driving.

For track use I would put on CarboTech 1521's. They hold up well, very hard braking and heat tolerant pad without going to actual hard racing pads. where you really have to adjust your braking technique for them. They need heat built up to grip right.

I'm curious about these bendix pads - looks like a great alternative. I would also look for a performance friction pad if those exist for our size.

I would not put the single piston PPV caliper on the car - just seems backwards. and 345 diameter rotor is not significantly bigger than our stock 330's - so ir really won't do much on your fronts. At the rear I could be easily swayed but what is the rear brake on the PPV?

New fluid - yes I flush mine every 2-3 years or once per track event. Haven't done a track event in years though. Right now for DD use I flushed it with Valvoine synthetic brake fluid - because of cost and easy availability. Daily driven. Track time I would put in ATE fluid - now I guess you can only get the red/orange color.

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