|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|05-26-2019 07:58 AM|
I agree with inov8rPPV on the technical prep of old rotors for new pads. But... tried to take the quick and easy way out. If I was going with the expensive Carbothech pads, I would have gotten new rotors. I'll try driving more and see what happens.
WRT other concerns: I check the slide pins on every brake job, these were silky and greasy. The calibers where the pads slot into were clean/rust free, new slide clips were used and a tiny bit of Sil-Glyde put on the pad tabs. The pads slotted into the calibers easily (some brake jobs I had to grind the tabs). I changed and bled the brake fluid a year ago. The pistons are working as the surface rust that forms overnite from rain is cleaned off (I'll check the rear/inside rotor surfaces again). I can lock up the brakes but only with a lot of pedal force and after most of the speed is scrubbed off.
Edit: Just pulled the rear wheels and eyeballed the rotor surfaces. The new pads do need more embedding. The inside rotor surfaces are not quite as shiny as the outsides.
|05-25-2019 01:05 PM|
With new pads being metallic and working with ABRASIVE friction try driving a few days to do the same thing. If you had ceramics before your rotors are coated with a layer of ceramic pad material. Ill post pics later of my rotors with ceramic pads vs to currently after a month with metallic pads
...monday when i get it back from the tint shop.
And maybe bleed your brakes? Air in the system?
|05-25-2019 10:58 AM|
1. old pads removed, new pads installed - check
2. rotor condition?
3. rotor prep?
4. brake lubricant used?
5. anything else?
Here's the point: unless there are details that have not been divulged, a new set of pads (and especially with different friction material) require that the rotors, at the very least, have the friction surfaces scuffed, to remove the transfer film that has formed from the previous pads.
Bedding the (new) pads is properly done with fresh, clean metal on the rotor cheeks--the old pad film on the rotors actually becomes a contaminant, preventing the new pad from forming it's own transfer film with the rotors.
Options to remove transfer film, in order of preference - least preferable to most preferable--this depends on the rotor meeting all other parameters for continued use--lateral runout, disc thickness variation, friction surface finish:
1. brake lathe to turn rotors, either on-car or off, making lightest cut possible - least preferable because it DOES remove metal
2. scuff rotors using a sanding disc, such as 3M Roloc, or even sandpaper with a block to keep the paper flat on the disc surface
3. scuff rotors using a "flex hone", as offered by Brush Research
Both 2. & 3. are better performed off-car, as reaching inside rotor cheeks is difficult at best on-car. Ideally, a means to spin the rotor is the proper way to do this--in other words, mount the rotor on a brake lathe to do this--with 3. (Flex Hone) the objective is to create a non-directional finish--it has a sort of cross-hatch appearance done properly.
In addition, once rotors are scuffed or cut, they must be thoroughly cleaned to remove all residual metal or potential contaminants. Water and soap is best, then air-drying, but most will likely opt for spray brake cleaner--just be prepared to use lots of it.
4. replace rotors - final/best option to ensure new pads are able to bed and form the transfer film properly
Photo shows a new rotor (custom hat & DBA ring) for an Impala SS -- non-directional surface finish is from flex honing, using a reversible drill motor, with rotor mounted & spinning on a brake lathe. It still required final cleaning to remove any loose metal or other debris/contaminants.
|05-25-2019 09:49 AM|
I can suggest check piston movement and pin sliders? Also pads aren't jammed in anchors, I had to grind a lot of rust on mine before I had a freely moving pad.
Maybe they just need more bedding? Idono, you should have the ability to lock up wheels, even with an average pad imo.
|05-25-2019 08:37 AM|
The key thing is you are easily able to lock up your wheels. I cannot.
I am running stock size Michelin Pilot Sport AS/3 all season tires (and PPV dampers). They are the stickier of the all seasons but unless your tires are 'greasy' tires, I doubt that explains the difference.
|05-25-2019 08:03 AM|
To compare I have stock suspension and stock tire sized all season tire. I also had the frond calipers rebuilt after finding some fluid in the boot during first safety inspection
|05-25-2019 07:41 AM|
OK, got the Bendix PBD1351/1352s installed. Need some insights here.
Bedded them in (I think) doing a lot of moderate and heavy braking starting at speeds of 40 - 70 mph. The braking action doesn't feel much different from the factory pads. Certainly not able to activate the anti-lock system easily like Turboner was/is able to. So any suggestions?
|05-21-2019 01:53 PM|
I don't get on this forum as often as I used to but I need to do so.
I run DBA Slotted G8 GT rotors front and rear. I got hawk pads but I do hate them, never liked any of them. But their ceramic pads came to me cheap.
For normal DD use I used to run Wagner Thermo-Quiet series pads. They aren't as aggressive but they do work well. Good initial bite, great for normal street driving.
For track use I would put on CarboTech 1521's. They hold up well, very hard braking and heat tolerant pad without going to actual hard racing pads. where you really have to adjust your braking technique for them. They need heat built up to grip right.
I'm curious about these bendix pads - looks like a great alternative. I would also look for a performance friction pad if those exist for our size.
I would not put the single piston PPV caliper on the car - just seems backwards. and 345 diameter rotor is not significantly bigger than our stock 330's - so ir really won't do much on your fronts. At the rear I could be easily swayed but what is the rear brake on the PPV?
New fluid - yes I flush mine every 2-3 years or once per track event. Haven't done a track event in years though. Right now for DD use I flushed it with Valvoine synthetic brake fluid - because of cost and easy availability. Daily driven. Track time I would put in ATE fluid - now I guess you can only get the red/orange color.
|05-20-2019 10:19 PM|
|05-19-2019 10:03 PM|
Originally Posted by GTRenegade911 View Post
|05-19-2019 04:27 PM|
I think I'm gonna get the highest quality AC Delco Rotors + Hawk HPS Pads + Russell Stainless Lines. Now that should be an improvement.
Tell us how you find the Bendix! Seems like a good product and may get those instead of Hawks. Hawks are so dusty.
|05-19-2019 12:23 PM|
OK, ordered the Bendix police pads from Rock Auto. Total cost including shipping and NY tax $79 US. Should be here by this Thursday.
I did strongly consider the Carbotech 1521s for $200 but I would also get new rotors which would push the cost to $400+. The wifey did question going the cheap route and if there was a middle brake option. I don't think so but said when the Bendix police pads need replacing, then I would go the Carbotech route with new rotors. So I will soon have the crap factory pads off and good riddance to them!
|05-13-2019 04:36 PM|
Originally Posted by inov8rPPV View Post
Iím on a road trip and the factory pads are crap and transferring to the rotors on moderate braking resulting in pulsing in the pedal and the shuttering in the steering wheel. Heavier braking cleans them off. Iím doing a lot of braking on the switch backs in the Smoky Mts and Skyline Drive.
|05-13-2019 07:03 AM|
The CT1351-1521 retail for $208. We do offer club and forum discounts if you buy directly from us. We would have to make these, 2-3 days to have them ready to ship.
My listings show the same 4 pot Brembo, the CT1001 for both the CTS-V (2004 edition) and the GXP. If you're looking for the 1521 in that pad shape, they retail for $170 and are in stock.
|05-13-2019 06:57 AM|
Originally Posted by GTRenegade911 View Post
With the single-piston option, there will be NO wheel clearance issues. Test fitting has indicated that the 345/Brembo combination described here will require a hub spacer for OE G8 5-spoke 18/19 wheels.
A last reminder--both caliper options use 14mm bolts for mounting, so the G8 knuckle will require enlargement of the 2 holes that are currently sized for 12mm bolts.
|05-10-2019 12:26 PM|
So if I understand correctly, we have the option to upgrade the calipers on our G8 with the PPV version and then putting the 345mm rotors? I have Camaro wheels so I'm guessing fitment won't be an issue.
That is good info, I was not aware of that option.
|05-10-2019 08:38 AM|
There are at least a couple of phrases that come to mind that may or may not apply, as it depends on the direction of approach to the issue--defined as best bang for the buck vs best for the purpose/best performance, or another attribute:
You get what you pay for (not a criticism of anyone for being "cheap"....)
A fool and his money are soon parted
Add your own here:
|05-10-2019 08:08 AM|
|whatnext||The last time I looked (quite a while ago), Carbotech 1521s for my stock GT were over $300. If they are cheaper now, that would be good to know. But $50 for a set of Bendix police pads is hard to beat and considering the low miles I put on my GT (only 35K miles now), I can deal with the dust.|
|05-10-2019 07:07 AM|
The Brembo application pads in the 1521 variant are under $200, per info here--this is for Brembo caliper fitment:
as shown here for Carbotech. Spec 1521 is the "Bobcat" friction formulation, their lowest grade offered.
Carbotech Performance Brakes: Products-Brembo Calipers Brake Pads & Shoes
EVO VIII/IX/X, CTS-V Caliper - .630"/16mm B: CT1001A
Gran Turismo Large 4-piston
Carbotech Performance Brakes: Products-Pontiac Brake Pads & Shoes
G8 GXP - Brembo Calipers F: CT1001 (2009)
Carbotech Performance Brakes: Products-Cadillac Brake Pads & Shoes
CTS-V Brembo 4-piston Caliper F: CT1001A (2004-2007)
What I cannot answer about the Carbotech listings above is the difference in D1001 & D1001A. It appears that D1001A is thicker, but correct spec pad for D1001 is 0.585", to my knowledge, and D1001A is 0.630". This is a question to inquire directly with Carbotech before making a purchase decision.
|05-09-2019 07:44 PM|
OK, thanks that explains it.
For $50 US, I can deal with the dust. The Carbotech 1521s apparently donít have the dusting but then they are over $300.
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