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  Topic Review (Newest First)
05-26-2019 07:58 AM
whatnext I agree with inov8rPPV on the technical prep of old rotors for new pads. But... tried to take the quick and easy way out. If I was going with the expensive Carbothech pads, I would have gotten new rotors. I'll try driving more and see what happens.

WRT other concerns: I check the slide pins on every brake job, these were silky and greasy. The calibers where the pads slot into were clean/rust free, new slide clips were used and a tiny bit of Sil-Glyde put on the pad tabs. The pads slotted into the calibers easily (some brake jobs I had to grind the tabs). I changed and bled the brake fluid a year ago. The pistons are working as the surface rust that forms overnite from rain is cleaned off (I'll check the rear/inside rotor surfaces again). I can lock up the brakes but only with a lot of pedal force and after most of the speed is scrubbed off.


Edit: Just pulled the rear wheels and eyeballed the rotor surfaces. The new pads do need more embedding. The inside rotor surfaces are not quite as shiny as the outsides.
05-25-2019 01:05 PM
Turboner With new pads being metallic and working with ABRASIVE friction try driving a few days to do the same thing. If you had ceramics before your rotors are coated with a layer of ceramic pad material. Ill post pics later of my rotors with ceramic pads vs to currently after a month with metallic pads

...monday when i get it back from the tint shop.

And maybe bleed your brakes? Air in the system?
05-25-2019 10:58 AM
inov8rPPV
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
OK, got the Bendix PBD1351/1352s installed. Need some insights here.

Bedded them in (I think) doing a lot of moderate and heavy braking starting at speeds of 40 - 70 mph. The braking action doesn't feel much different from the factory pads. Certainly not able to activate the anti-lock system easily like Turboner was/is able to. So any suggestions?
Here's where it's important to understand what the details are--specifically, what was done and what was not done in the process--a "pad slap" is what sounds (to me) happened in this case, and the results reported are addressed below.

1. old pads removed, new pads installed - check

2. rotor condition?

3. rotor prep?

4. brake lubricant used?

5. anything else?

Here's the point: unless there are details that have not been divulged, a new set of pads (and especially with different friction material) require that the rotors, at the very least, have the friction surfaces scuffed, to remove the transfer film that has formed from the previous pads.

Bedding the (new) pads is properly done with fresh, clean metal on the rotor cheeks--the old pad film on the rotors actually becomes a contaminant, preventing the new pad from forming it's own transfer film with the rotors.

Options to remove transfer film, in order of preference - least preferable to most preferable--this depends on the rotor meeting all other parameters for continued use--lateral runout, disc thickness variation, friction surface finish:

1. brake lathe to turn rotors, either on-car or off, making lightest cut possible - least preferable because it DOES remove metal

2. scuff rotors using a sanding disc, such as 3M Roloc, or even sandpaper with a block to keep the paper flat on the disc surface

3. scuff rotors using a "flex hone", as offered by Brush Research

Both 2. & 3. are better performed off-car, as reaching inside rotor cheeks is difficult at best on-car. Ideally, a means to spin the rotor is the proper way to do this--in other words, mount the rotor on a brake lathe to do this--with 3. (Flex Hone) the objective is to create a non-directional finish--it has a sort of cross-hatch appearance done properly.

In addition, once rotors are scuffed or cut, they must be thoroughly cleaned to remove all residual metal or potential contaminants. Water and soap is best, then air-drying, but most will likely opt for spray brake cleaner--just be prepared to use lots of it.

4. replace rotors - final/best option to ensure new pads are able to bed and form the transfer film properly

Photo shows a new rotor (custom hat & DBA ring) for an Impala SS -- non-directional surface finish is from flex honing, using a reversible drill motor, with rotor mounted & spinning on a brake lathe. It still required final cleaning to remove any loose metal or other debris/contaminants.
05-25-2019 09:49 AM
Turboner I can suggest check piston movement and pin sliders? Also pads aren't jammed in anchors, I had to grind a lot of rust on mine before I had a freely moving pad.

Maybe they just need more bedding? Idono, you should have the ability to lock up wheels, even with an average pad imo.
05-25-2019 08:37 AM
whatnext The key thing is you are easily able to lock up your wheels. I cannot.

I am running stock size Michelin Pilot Sport AS/3 all season tires (and PPV dampers). They are the stickier of the all seasons but unless your tires are 'greasy' tires, I doubt that explains the difference.
05-25-2019 08:03 AM
Turboner
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
OK, got the Bendix PBD1351/1352s installed. Need some insights here.

Bedded them in (I think) doing a lot of moderate and heavy braking starting at speeds of 40 - 70 mph. The braking action doesn't feel much different from the factory pads. Certainly not able to activate the anti-lock system easily like Turboner was/is able to. So any suggestions?
I did notice a world of difference, but I have no idea what pads were on my car before. (Just bought the car) I still stand by what I said because I can easily lock up my wheels under braking. Possibly they are not fully conformed to the rotor and need for bedding, or factory (and i do mean gm) is close to what the bendix pads are and again, I have no idea what brand pads came with my car when i bought it in march.

To compare I have stock suspension and stock tire sized all season tire. I also had the frond calipers rebuilt after finding some fluid in the boot during first safety inspection
05-25-2019 07:41 AM
whatnext OK, got the Bendix PBD1351/1352s installed. Need some insights here.

Bedded them in (I think) doing a lot of moderate and heavy braking starting at speeds of 40 - 70 mph. The braking action doesn't feel much different from the factory pads. Certainly not able to activate the anti-lock system easily like Turboner was/is able to. So any suggestions?
05-21-2019 01:53 PM
napalm I don't get on this forum as often as I used to but I need to do so.

I run DBA Slotted G8 GT rotors front and rear. I got hawk pads but I do hate them, never liked any of them. But their ceramic pads came to me cheap.

For normal DD use I used to run Wagner Thermo-Quiet series pads. They aren't as aggressive but they do work well. Good initial bite, great for normal street driving.

For track use I would put on CarboTech 1521's. They hold up well, very hard braking and heat tolerant pad without going to actual hard racing pads. where you really have to adjust your braking technique for them. They need heat built up to grip right.

I'm curious about these bendix pads - looks like a great alternative. I would also look for a performance friction pad if those exist for our size.

I would not put the single piston PPV caliper on the car - just seems backwards. and 345 diameter rotor is not significantly bigger than our stock 330's - so ir really won't do much on your fronts. At the rear I could be easily swayed but what is the rear brake on the PPV?

New fluid - yes I flush mine every 2-3 years or once per track event. Haven't done a track event in years though. Right now for DD use I flushed it with Valvoine synthetic brake fluid - because of cost and easy availability. Daily driven. Track time I would put in ATE fluid - now I guess you can only get the red/orange color.
05-20-2019 10:19 PM
Turboner
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRenegade911 View Post
The stock setup is not the best indeed, especially at highway speeds. Seems like the brakes are jumping a bit and aren't as grippy as they should be.

I think I'm gonna get the highest quality AC Delco Rotors + Hawk HPS Pads + Russell Stainless Lines. Now that should be an improvement.

Tell us how you find the Bendix! Seems like a good product and may get those instead of Hawks. Hawks are so dusty.
I’ll post up how the Bendix pads work for me. Just want to point out Turboner has run the HPS pads on another car and says when they are cold they don’t grip and he almost crashed because of that. He also said the Bendix police pads are dusty like the Hawks.
Yea if you go with hawks, the HP+ are great cold and for mild lapping days. With a whole lotta dust. Performance wise however the bendix Police pads feel the same with the same dust. Used them sunday to slow from 200kph to 100kph and the grabbed hard all the way no fade.
05-19-2019 10:03 PM
whatnext
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRenegade911 View Post
The stock setup is not the best indeed, especially at highway speeds. Seems like the brakes are jumping a bit and aren't as grippy as they should be.

I think I'm gonna get the highest quality AC Delco Rotors + Hawk HPS Pads + Russell Stainless Lines. Now that should be an improvement.

Tell us how you find the Bendix! Seems like a good product and may get those instead of Hawks. Hawks are so dusty.
I値l post up how the Bendix pads work for me. Just want to point out Turboner has run the HPS pads on another car and says when they are cold they don稚 grip and he almost crashed because of that. He also said the Bendix police pads are dusty like the Hawks.
05-19-2019 04:27 PM
GTRenegade911
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
OK, ordered the Bendix police pads from Rock Auto. Total cost including shipping and NY tax $79 US. Should be here by this Thursday.

I did strongly consider the Carbotech 1521s for $200 but I would also get new rotors which would push the cost to $400+. The wifey did question going the cheap route and if there was a middle brake option. I don't think so but said when the Bendix police pads need replacing, then I would go the Carbotech route with new rotors. So I will soon have the crap factory pads off and good riddance to them!
The stock setup is not the best indeed, especially at highway speeds. Seems like the brakes are jumping a bit and aren't as grippy as they should be.

I think I'm gonna get the highest quality AC Delco Rotors + Hawk HPS Pads + Russell Stainless Lines. Now that should be an improvement.

Tell us how you find the Bendix! Seems like a good product and may get those instead of Hawks. Hawks are so dusty.
05-19-2019 12:23 PM
whatnext OK, ordered the Bendix police pads from Rock Auto. Total cost including shipping and NY tax $79 US. Should be here by this Thursday.

I did strongly consider the Carbotech 1521s for $200 but I would also get new rotors which would push the cost to $400+. The wifey did question going the cheap route and if there was a middle brake option. I don't think so but said when the Bendix police pads need replacing, then I would go the Carbotech route with new rotors. So I will soon have the crap factory pads off and good riddance to them!
05-13-2019 04:36 PM
whatnext
Quote:
Originally Posted by inov8rPPV View Post
Response to an inquiry made directly to CarboTech:
The CT1351-1521 retail for $208. We do offer club and forum discounts if you buy directly from us. We would have to make these, 2-3 days to have them ready to ship.

My listings show the same 4 pot Brembo, the CT1001 for both the CTS-V (2004 edition) and the GXP. If you're looking for the 1521 in that pad shape, they retail for $170 and are in stock.
Thanks for digging into this. I知 going to change pads real soon and might spring for the 1521s.

I知 on a road trip and the factory pads are crap and transferring to the rotors on moderate braking resulting in pulsing in the pedal and the shuttering in the steering wheel. Heavier braking cleans them off. I知 doing a lot of braking on the switch backs in the Smoky Mts and Skyline Drive.
05-13-2019 07:03 AM
inov8rPPV
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
The last time I looked (quite a while ago), Carbotech 1521s for my stock GT were over $300. If they are cheaper now, that would be good to know. But $50 for a set of Bendix police pads is hard to beat and considering the low miles I put on my GT (only 35K miles now), I can deal with the dust.
Response to an inquiry made directly to CarboTech:
The CT1351-1521 retail for $208. We do offer club and forum discounts if you buy directly from us. We would have to make these, 2-3 days to have them ready to ship.

My listings show the same 4 pot Brembo, the CT1001 for both the CTS-V (2004 edition) and the GXP. If you're looking for the 1521 in that pad shape, they retail for $170 and are in stock.
05-13-2019 06:57 AM
inov8rPPV
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRenegade911 View Post
I was not aware of that option.
In reality, using the PPV 345mm front rotors gives you 2 options--using the PPV single-piston floating caliper, or using the Alpha CTS/Camaro 4-piston fixed Brembo caliper made specifically to fit 345mm diameter rotors--just to clarify, once again, this is a different parts combination than used on the GXP, which also included specific 19" wheels for caliper clearance.

With the single-piston option, there will be NO wheel clearance issues. Test fitting has indicated that the 345/Brembo combination described here will require a hub spacer for OE G8 5-spoke 18/19 wheels.

A last reminder--both caliper options use 14mm bolts for mounting, so the G8 knuckle will require enlargement of the 2 holes that are currently sized for 12mm bolts.
05-10-2019 12:26 PM
GTRenegade911 So if I understand correctly, we have the option to upgrade the calipers on our G8 with the PPV version and then putting the 345mm rotors? I have Camaro wheels so I'm guessing fitment won't be an issue.

That is good info, I was not aware of that option.
05-10-2019 08:38 AM
inov8rPPV
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
The last time I looked (quite a while ago), Carbotech 1521s for my stock GT were over $300. If they are cheaper now, that would be good to know. But $50 for a set of Bendix police pads is hard to beat and considering the low miles I put on my GT (only 35K miles now), I can deal with the dust.
Exactly....totally understand.

There are at least a couple of phrases that come to mind that may or may not apply, as it depends on the direction of approach to the issue--defined as best bang for the buck vs best for the purpose/best performance, or another attribute:

You get what you pay for (not a criticism of anyone for being "cheap"....)

A fool and his money are soon parted

Add your own here:
05-10-2019 08:08 AM
whatnext The last time I looked (quite a while ago), Carbotech 1521s for my stock GT were over $300. If they are cheaper now, that would be good to know. But $50 for a set of Bendix police pads is hard to beat and considering the low miles I put on my GT (only 35K miles now), I can deal with the dust.
05-10-2019 07:07 AM
inov8rPPV
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
OK, thanks that explains it.

For $50 US, I can deal with the dust. The Carbotech 1521s apparently don’t have the dusting but then they are over $300.
This may be an apples to oranges comparison--are you finding that the Carbotech 1521 pad for stock G8 (FMSI D1351) is $300+? I'm waiting for a response from CT to confirm pricing. It's easy to understand that there are a broad range of pad options at many price points, and, as you indicate, it's not a difficult choice to deal with the potential downside(s) of a less costly option.

The Brembo application pads in the 1521 variant are under $200, per info here--this is for Brembo caliper fitment:

https://www.g8board.com/forums/3678547-post63.html

as shown here for Carbotech. Spec 1521 is the "Bobcat" friction formulation, their lowest grade offered.

Carbotech Performance Brakes: Products-Brembo Calipers Brake Pads & Shoes
EVO VIII/IX/X, CTS-V Caliper - .630"/16mm B: CT1001A
$177
Gran Turismo Large 4-piston
All Years

Carbotech Performance Brakes: Products-Pontiac Brake Pads & Shoes
G8 GXP - Brembo Calipers F: CT1001 (2009)

Carbotech Performance Brakes: Products-Cadillac Brake Pads & Shoes
CTS-V Brembo 4-piston Caliper F: CT1001A (2004-2007)

What I cannot answer about the Carbotech listings above is the difference in D1001 & D1001A. It appears that D1001A is thicker, but correct spec pad for D1001 is 0.585", to my knowledge, and D1001A is 0.630". This is a question to inquire directly with Carbotech before making a purchase decision.
05-09-2019 07:44 PM
whatnext OK, thanks that explains it.

For $50 US, I can deal with the dust. The Carbotech 1521s apparently don稚 have the dusting but then they are over $300.
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