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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, I just bought this car, 2009 G8 V6, and I love it. Of course it was used but serviced regularly and very well maintained. I've had it about a month and at first ethng was great. Then, out of nowhere I get "ABS FAULTY" warning along with EVAP leak and a 2176 code. How are these related, if at all and what would cause them to come on all at once? CPU going out?
 

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If you don't own a scanner/fault reader, you really should get one. Pick a model that can link up to the most (if not all) of the various protocols used by all the manufactures.That alone would allow you to help yourself an your friends, if they were to develop a problem with their cars/trucks. The more high end you go, the more info you can find. Like B - C - an P level fault codes. For the EVAP problem, look for a fault code (from say) P0442 up to P0499..

ABS problems almost always start with a C fault # (like C0045 an up).

P2176 says your "minimum throttle position not learned" The throttle body see's a voltage error between the #1 an #2 T/B position sensors within it. You could try this relearn procedure for a possible short or long term fix. #1--- Turn off the ignition for 30 seconds #2--- Turn on the ignition (with the engine off) for 60 seconds. #3--- Turn off the ignition #4---Turn on the ignition (with the engine off). Then clear the fault code with a scan tool. If no scan reader available, the fault will reset itself after 2 start/run cycles have been completed "IF" the throttle body performed correctly. on those 2 consecutive start/run cycles. Or disconnecting the battery ground wire for a couple of minutes, might force a reset also.. It does say in the service manual, to be at the ready, to buy an replace the TB. Its like there saying, if it failed one time, your likely going to get another failure not that far into the future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Wow that's an ocean of knowledge and definitely appreciated. I have a scan tool and it's a descent 1 and it's Bluetooth. Im able to read most everything including live data while I'm driving. I will try that ignition process in a bit. Thank you for your help and information. Again it's very appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If you don't own a scanner/fault reader, you really should get one. Pick a model that can link up to the most (if not all) of the various protocols used by all the manufactures.That alone would allow you to help yourself an your friends, if they were to develop a problem with their cars/trucks. The more high end you go, the more info you can find. Like B - C - an P level fault codes. For the EVAP problem, look for a fault code (from say) P0442 up to P0499..

ABS problems almost always start with a C fault # (like C0045 an up).

P2176 says your "minimum throttle position not learned" The throttle body see's a voltage error between the #1 an #2 T/B position sensors within it. You could try this relearn procedure for a possible short or long term fix. #1--- Turn off the ignition for 30 seconds #2--- Turn on the ignition (with the engine off) for 60 seconds. #3--- Turn off the ignition #4---Turn on the ignition (with the engine off). Then clear the fault code with a scan tool. If no scan reader available, the fault will reset itself after 2 start/run cycles have been completed "IF" the throttle body performed correctly. on those 2 consecutive start/run cycles. Or disconnecting the battery ground wire for a couple of minutes, might force a reset also.. It does say in the service manual, to be at the ready, to buy an replace the TB. Its like there saying, if it failed one time, your likely going to get another failure not that far into the future.
Wow that's an ocean of knowledge and definitely appreciated. I have a scan tool and it's a descent 1 and it's Bluetooth. Im able to read most everything including live data while I'm driving. I will try that ignition process in a bit. Thank you for your help and information. Again it's very appreciated.
 

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Welcome to the forum. The "abs fault" warning could mean a variety of things and it's best to scan the computer for codes to aid in troubleshooting. The evap leak could merely be a defective/improperly sealing gas cap. Either way, the vehicle should be scanned. It's unlikely the issues are related and has the car been driven much since purchasing?
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Very useful information indeed sir thank you. I drive just back and forth to work and the car wash twice a week. I've scanned it and cleared the throttle code atleast 6 or more times. What should I do about cleaning the throttle body because I've read about a couple ways to do it.
 

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Purchase a can of throttle body (carburetor) cleaner. Disconnect the air intake tube. Turn the ignition to run (do not start the vehicle). Place a brick on or have someone hold down the accelerator pedal. This will open the butterfly valve (do not operate the butterfly valve manually). Place a towel under the throttle body. Spray some cleaner inside the throttle body concentrating on the outer perimeter and wouldn't spray farther than a hand's length. Use the towel to catch both the excess fluid and wipe around inside the throttle body. Spray the butterfly valve and clean as well. Reassemble everything. Start the car while holding the accelerator pedal down. Most probably it will take a little longer to turn over and stumble a few seconds after starting. CAUTION: Do not go haywire on the amount of cleaner sprayed into the throttle body. Just enough to clean what you can reach by hand.
Puled this from a different thread.
^^^^ Yea, it says that if code P2176 resets after performing the throttle learn procedure, you will have to replace the throttle body. AS if to say, you don't have to wait to see if it would ever come back on. Changing out the TB, requires that the re-learn procedure must be performed. There is some other information on "Circuit/System Verification". Not that this solves the problem, but you could perform that action called for,followed by the re-learn stuff again, to see if it will reset again. It says with ignition on, rapidly depress the accelerator pedal from the rest position to the WOT position, then release the pedal. Repeat this several times. Maybe the combination of the 2 procedures, would produce a long term fix. If the part has been ordered,ignore this last part talked about.
 

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How many miles and or kilometres on this vehicle? Having a V6 myself, I can certify that these engines do have throttle problems, and mine was no exception - I replaced the throttle at around 230,000km or 143,000mi, and the 2176 code is one that it was throwing amongst a few others. The throttle body electronics just eventually crap out badly.

ABS fault is not one I've had often but GM vehicles have been known to throw ABS codes when a wheel bearing is starting to go bad. Happened to me a few times over the years. That's not a conclusive diagnosis, just my two cents from over 15 years experience owning and driving GM products.

What EVAP code is it throwing? More than a few of us have had to replace the V6's EVAP purge solenoid. That's thankfully a cheap and easy procedure on the V6.

Depending on what OBD2 scan tool you own, you might want to look into one called BlueDriver - I just got one recently and what it can do is fairly impressive.
 

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Also, while I get why having all those issues pop up at once would make you want to think the computer is going bad, I have to say after owning this car since 2011, it is one of the most electronically glitchy vehicles I have ever seen. Random codes thrown, phantom ABS issues that come and go for months at a time (always something to do with a commbus failure like the module just didn't communicate for some odd reason), cruise control randomly shutting off, massive electronic seizures where I'd be cruising along and suddenly the cluster would show the gears shifting back and forth, cruise shutting off and on, and like half a dozen other messages.

Luckily almost every issue has gone away with a shutdown and restart over the years, but it is, as I said, the glitchiest fu**in' car I've ever seen. You have an excellent chance of finding that you just have a few different issues all ganging up at once and that your computer is as fine (as it ever gets).
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
How many miles and or kilometres on this vehicle? Having a V6 myself, I can certify that these engines do have throttle problems, and mine was no exception - I replaced the throttle at around 230,000km or 143,000mi, and the 2176 code is one that it was throwing amongst a few others. The throttle body electronics just eventually crap out badly.

ABS fault is not one I've had often but GM vehicles have been known to throw ABS codes when a wheel bearing is starting to go bad. Happened to me a few times over the years. That's not a conclusive diagnosis, just my two cents from over 15 years experience owning and driving GM products.

What EVAP code is it throwing? More than a few of us have had to replace the V6's EVAP purge solenoid. That's thankfully a cheap and easy procedure on the V6.

Depending on what OBD2 scan tool you own, you might want to look into one called BlueDriver - I just got one recently and what it can do is fairly impressive.
Thanks for the reply. It has 130,000 miles and it runs great. I just changed the plugs and wires and I'm changing the oil today. My scan tool is the $50 Bluetooth hyper tough from Walmart unfortunately and its actually impressive for what it is but I will check into the one you recommend. Actually, I'm not sure why and I've been all around this beast of an engine but it's very fast. Example, I was coming home from work yesterday and I live by the airport in NC so there's alot of curves. This Dodge Challenger is in front of me and I'm getting over. I'm not going to lie, I love driving fast, especially in a car that can handle it, but this guy took off and I said Fu** it and I nailed it. Before I know it were both at around 140 and I'm passing him which I'm sure he let off but my beast wanted to keep going. I don't do stuff like that often but it gave me a reason to see what it could do. I'm never getting rid of this car unless it goes to my son. I will drop a new motor in it if I need too, ain't nothing but money. The EVAP code is P0496. Thanks again for helping.
 

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Thanks for the reply. It has 130,000 miles and it runs great. I just changed the plugs and wires and I'm changing the oil today. My scan tool is the $50 Bluetooth hyper tough from Walmart unfortunately and its actually impressive for what it is but I will check into the one you recommend. Actually, I'm not sure why and I've been all around this beast of an engine but it's very fast. Example, I was coming home from work yesterday and I live by the airport in NC so there's alot of curves. This Dodge Challenger is in front of me and I'm getting over. I'm not going to lie, I love driving fast, especially in a car that can handle it, but this guy took off and I said Fu** it and I nailed it. Before I know it were both at around 140 and I'm passing him which I'm sure he let off but my beast wanted to keep going. I don't do stuff like that often but it gave me a reason to see what it could do. I'm never getting rid of this car unless it goes to my son. I will drop a new motor in it if I need too, ain't nothing but money. The EVAP code is P0496. Thanks again for helping.
Definitely replace the EVAP purge valve solenoid. This is where I got it from - as you can see it's fairly inexpensive. 2009 PONTIAC G8 3.6L V6 Vapor Canister Purge Valve / Solenoid | RockAuto

I would suggest using an AC Delco or similar - don't go with an El Cheapo. Also this is just to show you where I got it from - doesn't mean you have to order it from Rock Auto. I'm sure you can get it at any source you like including any local parts store.

The job was about 15 minutes - didn't even have time to start swearing at it.

It is a good car - in my case both the engine and transmission are original and never opened up (minus fluid replacements and maintenance). It still runs strong - I will admit it's a little less powerful than it used to be but that's natural for a car with some mileage built up - but even at that it still gets up and goes. Overall I cannot fault this car - it has done me well - but the electronics were always questionable.

I will miss it in another month or two when my new vehicle arrives. I hope to find it a good home.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That is great advice thanks. Can I ask why you recommend AC Delco? Im not really stuck on a certain brand for anything other than the oil and filter I use mobile 1 full syn and the filter is fram. But if the AC Delco is the best for this car I will spare no expense. Money means nothing when it comes to this car. So how much do you want for it and why are you selling it?
 

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Considering that the ACDelco purge valve that came on the engines >>>> P/N 214-1685 or 12611801 (same part) lasted that long (an new ones are priced right at places such as Amazon for less than $19), it would make me want to buy that brand as the replacement part.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Considering that the ACDelco purge valve that came on the engines >>>> P/N 214-1685 or 12611801 (same part) lasted that long (an new ones are priced right at places such as Amazon for less than $19), it would make me want to buy that brand as the replacement part.
Wow that's inexpensive and a bit odd. I thought Hitachi (if that's how it's spelled) was the OEM throttle body. That's what everyone is telling me when I priced it. They did offer the Delco but it seemed a bit cheap. Can you by chance tell me why whenever my cel comes on for my throttle why might my abs light comes on and the car goes into safety mode
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Wow that's inexpensive and a bit odd. I thought Hitachi (if that's how it's spelled) was the OEM throttle body. That's what everyone is telling me when I priced it. They did offer the Delco but it seemed a bit cheap. Can you by chance tell me why whenever my cel comes on for my throttle why might my abs light comes on and the car goes into safety mode
Ohp sry never mind. I thought you were talking about the throttle body. I'm stuck on that today I just ordered it. My bad
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Wow that's inexpensive and a bit odd. I thought Hitachi (if that's how it's spelled) was the OEM throttle body. That's what everyone is telling me when I priced it. They did offer the Delco but it seemed a bit cheap. Can you by chance tell me why whenever my cel comes on for my throttle why might my abs light comes on and the car goes into safety mode
Ohp sry never mind. I thought you were talking about the throttle body. I'm stuck on that today I just ordered it. My bad
 

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That is great advice thanks. Can I ask why you recommend AC Delco? Im not really stuck on a certain brand for anything other than the oil and filter I use mobile 1 full syn and the filter is fram. But if the AC Delco is the best for this car I will spare no expense. Money means nothing when it comes to this car. So how much do you want for it and why are you selling it?
I should clarify that I don't specifically recommend using ACDelco in place of a GM OEM part - if available, always use the OEM part - but if a GM OEM brand part is not available then ACDelco is the next best option. I have found, in the course of owning GM cars, that using GM OEM parts or ACDelco (GM's approved "aftermarket" parts brand) is the best bet, at least in terms of sensors, engine controls, and anything electronic/electrical.

I assume by "So how much do you want for it and why are you selling it?" you mean my car.

To put it simply, it no longer makes sense, financial or otherwise, for me to keep the car and keep putting money into it. It is high mileage at 164k miles and many of those miles are Greater-Toronto-Area winter miles, which take a toll on any vehicle. The car was already an "old car" by the time my commute nearly tripled in distance three years ago, which has only accelerated the process. The car still runs and shifts well enough but it needs some work to fix it up, and because I have no space to work on it myself, I would have to pay someone else to do everything for me and that will drive the cost up even more. It's a base model G8 with literally zero extra options (its first owner was a rental car company), so it isn't worth too much money now, and I would have to put more money into it to fix it up than it is worth. I'm also, frankly, tired of it and ready to move on to something else. I've had it since March of 2011 and it is no longer of interest to me, and I am not a project-car person so it has no prospects for being restored or refurbished while it is in my hands. I could continue driving it until it dies, but then it would be worth even less (scrap metal value only) and it would not have any chance to go to someone who might be able to do something with it. My hope is that it will go to someone who doesn't mind spending a bit of money to fix it up and restore it. When the time comes (I likely won't see my new vehicle until May as it has yet to be built), I will be trying to sell it somewhere in the range of $1000-2000 Canadian.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I should clarify that I don't specifically recommend using ACDelco in place of a GM OEM part - if available, always use the OEM part - but if a GM OEM brand part is not available then ACDelco is the next best option. I have found, in the course of owning GM ca uprs, that using GM OEM parts or ACDelco (GM's approved "aftermarket" parts brand) is the best bet, at least in terms of sensors, engine controls, and anything electronic/electrical.

I assume by "So how much do you want for it and why are you selling it?" you mean my car.

To put it simply, it no longer makes sense, financial or otherwise, for me to keep the car and keep putting money into it. It is high mileage at 164k miles and many of those miles are Greater-Toronto-Area winter miles, which take a toll on any vehicle. The car was already an "old car" by the time my commute nearly tripled in distance three years ago, which has only accelerated the process. The car still runs and shifts well enough but it needs some work to fix it up, and because I have no space to work on it myself, I would have to pay someone else to do everything for me and that will drive the cost up even more. It's a base model G8 with literally zero extra options (its first owner was a rental car company), so it isn't worth too much money now, and I would have to put more money into it to fix it up than it is worth. I'm also, frankly, tired of it and ready to move on to something else. I've had it since March of 2011 and it is no longer of interest to me, and I am not a project-car person so it has no prospects for being restored or refurbished while it is in my hands. I could continue driving it until it dies, but then it would be worth even less (scrap metal value only) and it would not have any chance to go to someone who might be able to do something with it. My hope is that it will go to someone who doesn't mind spending a bit of money to fix it up and restore it. When the time comes (I likely won't see my new vehicle until May as it has yet to be built), I will be trying to sell it somewhere in the range of $1000-2000 Canadian.
My throttle body came today and is getting put on tonight. So that should take care of the CEL for the throttle position not learned, now for the purge CEL. So I should get a purge valve solenoid and hopefully it fixes the issue. So is there a particular reason that would send it in to safety mode because that's a new one for me
 

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Even thou the service manual doesn't say you would go into the reduced power mode if a P2176 code had been detected, another throttle body fault code section does say that anytime the ECM detects an error between the trottle bodies 2 position sensors, it "will" default to the reduced power mode (limp home mode) for the duration of that ignition cycle. Makes it sound like (after a short ignition off rest period) the car might return to a normal condition before possibly happening again.

The P0496 says you had an evap event. An evap event, is an evap event. That canister purge valve "could" make the engine a little hard to start an stumble for a while, before correcting itself. Or prevent the fuel tank from receiving its required vacuum pressure. Neither of which will cause a limp home mode event.
 
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