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Alexander Haig
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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28846202

Read it and understand that this will now allow not just 16 states banding together to adopt CARB as their rules, but that in fact now each and every state will be allowed to adopt DIFFERENT emissions standards as long as they equal or exceed the EPA regs. If Detroit is to survive then this and next round of bailouts will not be nearly enough. Even teh wholesale importation fo Fiats rebadged as Dodges won't be enough for Chrysler. GM has already introduced and released(except for Volt which is introduced only) every high mileage vehicle they have been working on. Buy your G8's while you can and hope that your own state does not mandate their actual removal from the highway.
 

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Master Sheep Hurdler
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"Let me be clear: Our goal is not to further burden an already struggling industry," Obama said at the White House. "It is to help America's automakers prepare for the future."
I fail to see how having a dozen or more different emissions standards is actually HELPING the Big Three. If they're smart, they'll just engineer to meet California's standards and they should be good for everywhere else.

Say goodbye to one more freedom of choice.:(
 

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Lone Ranger
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1,043 Posts
I wonder if that 6 billion pound Cadillac SUV limo they cart him around in is CARB friendly
 

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Alexander Haig
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Discussion Starter #4
I fail to see how having a dozen or more different emissions standards is actually HELPING the Big Three. If they're smart, they'll just engineer to meet California's standards and they should be good for everywhere else.

Say goodbye to one more freedom of choice.:(
Yes, most states involved in this are too lazy to write anything themselves and will in lockstep adopt the newest and most stringent CARB rules - but the door has been left open for them to do what they please. Think of it like minimum wage. There is a Fed minimum, each state can enact their own higher level but there is no limit on how high that can be.
I wonder if that 6 billion pound Cadillac SUV limo they cart him around in is CARB friendly
No more so than the 6,000# black Suburbans in front of and behind said limo. You do know there is also at least one decoy.
 

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Banned
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717 Posts
Deregulation and keeping the government out of our lives and out of businesses is the only way to save the auto industry and the country.

If he wants to say "Let me be clear: Our goal is not to further burden an already struggling industry," Then keep your stupid hands off and let them do what they think is best. If the auto industry was allowed to make the cars we want and not the cars the government want/thinks we need they would be doing fine.
 

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Stryker
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I'm not surprised. After November 4th....I expected this.
 

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Lone Ranger
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no one could ever say it better than Milton Friedman himself

A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
 

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Longtime Member
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the begining of the end !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Here's a question: what's cheaper, manufacturing cars to meet the lowest common denominator, or simply not selling cars in states with higher emissions standards? How funny would it be if GM just said: you know what California, if you want to be so damn anal you can retrofit our cars to meet your state standards, otherwise, we just won't sell them there. LOL I guess it wouldn't be funny if you lived in California. :wink2:
 

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Sporting the GXP
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I agree with CodeJockey.
 

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"Let me be clear: Our goal is not to further burden an already struggling industry," Obama said at the White House. "It is to help America's automakers prepare for the future."
I fail to see how having a dozen or more different emissions standards is actually HELPING the Big Three. If they're smart, they'll just engineer to meet California's standards and they should be good for everywhere else.
Say goodbye to one more freedom of choice.:(
...
spanish inquisition said:
"Let me be clear: Our goal is not to further burden individuals struggling with faith," the Grand Inquisitor said. "It is to help souls prepare for the future."
 

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Lone Ranger
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Different standards = bad idea. What if a state enacts standards tougher than California's?
Where does the bar stop????
I like to think that states are smarter than the federal government. Less "mob" mentality usually leads to much sounder decision making.
 

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I like to think that states are smarter than the federal government. Less "mob" mentality usually leads to much sounder decision making.
I have to disagree. I worked in power-plant emissions monitoring for a while. While any one state's requirements may not be horrible by itself, dealing with the difference from one state to the next is a huge pain. Trying to create one solution to satisfy everyone could simply be impossible. One state may care more about CO2, another may care more about CO, yet another may care more about NOx, hydrocarbons, etc.
 

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US Ute whore
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I wonder if that 6 billion pound Cadillac SUV limo they cart him around in is CARB friendly
Not a chance in hell. And you know it isn't very fuel efficient. I want to see one of the limo drivers filling up with E85.

I'm not surprised. After November 4th....I expected this.
I expected a slap in the face. This is a kick in the shin. Just for reference, a kick in the balls move would have been to mandate 100% electric cars by next week.

Here's a question: what's cheaper, manufacturing cars to meet the lowest common denominator, or simply not selling cars in states with higher emissions standards? How funny would it be if GM just said: you know what California, if you want to be so damn anal you can retrofit our cars to meet your state standards, otherwise, we just won't sell them there. LOL I guess it wouldn't be funny if you lived in California. :wink2:
And here is where the comment "Our goal is not to further burden an already struggling industry" falls through the cracks. If a car company decided not to sell in a state with stadards more strict than what they build, then they lose out on potential sales. The more populated the state, the more potential sales are lost. Then where will GM be? Not to be outdone, the automakers have to have their vehicles compliant with the strictest state by a certain date. Maybe the state sets a regulation that is truly unreachable (by all automakers, not just GM), then no cars get sold. It will cost money to meet the standards while at the same time not selling any cars & earning any profits.
 

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Lone Ranger
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I think what's more likely is that states will compete against each other.

"hey GM, we'll lower our standards if you sell your cars for less in our state"

free market at work baby!
 

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Lone Ranger
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I'll believe that when I see it.
It'll happen so long as the federal government doesn't interfere. Of course you know they will.

Car sales are a HUGE source of tax revenue for state governments. It is in their absolute best interest for car companies to sell as many cars as possible in their state.

The fed of course doesn't give two shits about what's good for state governments.
 
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