[yutzybrian]

First off, I want to give credit to the original members, hivoltagedriver and dblaron, and their threads from which I gained a large chunk of my knowledge in getting started with this swap years ago.

Zeta II (Camaro) FRONT suspension swap info!

Alright guys (and gals). This has been a while in the making, but I have finally got it (just about) done. Front Camaro spindles and struts installed on the G8. Sounds easy enough, right? Well it is now. First off, why would you do this? 1.) Zeta II got stronger components and better geometry...

www.g8board.com

Camaro Cradle Swap PICS

I decided to create a thread to show the installation of a 5th Gen cradle in my car. So far i have read about tons of people swapping just the carrier (obviously), a few people have actually swapped the knuckles, and i read about one person who supposedly swapped a cradle but didnt provide any...

www.g8board.com

However, over the years as information has been added and discussed in various threads, much of it has gotten buried and I felt like it was time to bring it all back together in a single thread, with a whole slew of notes of stuff I encountered along the way. I intend to continually update and add to the first few posts in this thread to keep the information front and center.

Jump to Front Suspension

Jump to Rear Suspension

Jump to Brake Line Information

Reasons why you might undertake this:

• Parts availability - if you need a wheel bearing or lower control arm later on down the road, which vehicle do you think it is easier to find it for?
• Stronger components - GM upgraded a bunch of stuff moving to the new platform (and even some stuff mid platform! We'll get to that later...)
• Easier brake upgrades - Brembos bolt right on (no need to drill the holes in the knuckle or anything of the such) and open up any aftermarket options available to the 5th gen.
• Bragging rights?

You might notice that I didn't mention strut selection, which was mentioned in the original thread linked above. This is because, in my opinion, the only way to do this swap correctly is to use an aftermarket coilover from a company that produces products for both the G8 and Camaro.

 

[yutzybrian]

Front Suspension

Parts

2010-2011 Chevrolet Camaro:

• (Left and right) Front lower control arm, frontward, with bolts and nuts (bolt size increased by 2mm over G8)
• (Left and right) Front lower control arm, rearward, with bolts and nuts (bolt size increased by 2mm over G8)
• (Left and right) Front knuckle (complete with wheel speed sensor, rotor shield, brakes, hub, etc)
• (4x) Strut bolt and nut, to knuckle (bolt size increased by 2mm over G8)
• (2x) Strut top nut (I grabbed mine off a car in the junkyard. Believe it or not, GM decreased this one by 2mm)
• (2x) Outer tie rod
• (2x) Front sway bar end link (MUST be for 2010-2011, 2012+ increased the stud diameter 2mm. The 2010-2011 diameter matches the G8 sway bar holes)
• (Left and right) Your choice of aftermarket front strut with lower spring seat

2008-2009 Pontiac G8:

• (2x) Your choice of aftermarket front spring with upper spring seat
• (2x) Front strut mount with bearings

Other:

• (2x) Spacer bushing, 14mm ID x 16mm height (OD not terribly important, just don't go crazy small or big)
• Sleeve type bushings, 14mm ID x 16mm OD (cut to height later)
• 2002 Chevrolet Camaro inner tie rod (same piece also fits about 100 other vehicles, just giving a specific year for lookup)

Instructions

The front definitely took a little bit of work and creative thinking to get right. The Camaro has a vastly different top mount and a beehive spring (top diameter is larger than bottom) whereas the G8 has a straight spring (top and bottom are same diameter). Initially, I just slapped it all together but was not happy with the results. For one, the strut shaft stuck up way too far. I couldn't even keep the adjusters on because they would rub on the underside of the hood. Found someone with a 5th gen that also had BCs installed and asked to measure theirs, it came out to a mere 8mm.

Another issue was that the strut mount was basically just floating on top of the BC Camaro upper spring seat, not locked into place at all. These two pictures illustrate the difference, Camaro spring seat on the left and G8 on the right.

Since I was using BC coilovers, I ended up doing a mix and match to get everything married up perfectly. This is also where the extra bushings from the parts list comes in. The 16mm tall spacer (in my case a castle nut that just happened to be perfect) fixes the issue with it sticking up too high. The sleeve bushings ensure the shaft fits the G8 strut mount perfectly. I found these copper sleeves on eBay and stacked them. One is cut down to be just short of flush with the top of the strut mount (you don't want to interfere with tightening the nut). The dome like washer in the picture is from the SuperPro strut mount kit.

Original Camaro assembly with G8 strut mount bushing (left) and proper 50/50 Camaro/G8 assembly (right). Top nut should be torqued to 52 lb-ft.

Next modification to tackle is the tie rods. The inner is slightly longer than we need and would limit how much the tie rod could be adjusted. Thankfully, the inner tie rod has a lot of extra threading so we can just cut some of that off. Here you can see where I laid it next to my stock G8 ones and marked about a half of an inch to cut off. I was aiming for the end of the inner to be in the middle of the outer tie rods threaded section when assembled.

Finally, the last modification before beginning to bolt everything in is to enlarge the lower control arm holes (all 4) by 2mm. You'll be drilling them out to 14mm. This is the only modification really required that is not easily reversible (since you'd pretty much have to swap the front subframe to go back stock).

My blank slate, ready for assembly

Now you can pretty much bolt everything on like normal. To install the struts, use the factory top washers (that big one with the rubberized edge) and the new top mount nuts.

Torque specs:

• Lower control arm (the frontward one, aka caster arm) to frame nut: 37 lb-ft + 150 degrees
• Lower control arm to knuckle: 30 lb-ft + 90 degrees
• Lower rear control arm (the rearward, smaller one) to frame nut: 37 lb-ft + 120 degrees
• Lower rear control arm to knuckle: 30 lb-ft + 90 degrees
• Strut to knuckle: 59 lb-ft + 180 degrees
• Strut nut (both): 52 lb-ft
• Sway bar end link nuts: 37 lb-ft
• Tie rod end to knuckle: 22 lb-ft + 120 degrees

To plug in the wheel speed sensors, you can cut a pigtail off your old ones and wire it the new sensors. I chose to go to the junkyard and cut 2 body side ends off of a Camaro then created simple little adapters by soldering the pigtails together.

Jump to Brake Line Information

My current ER series (with Swift springs) installed. I had to grind the top of the knuckles down to clear my 18" wheels.

Not much room left with 275s up front.

 

[yutzybrian]

Rear Suspension

Parts

Easiest way to get (almost) all of the parts you need here is to get a complete rear dropout from a 5th gen Camaro, minus the coilovers. Make sure you are not getting one from a ZL1. The diff is different on the supercharged model and has a different driveshaft and axles. It might work if you have a ZL1 isolator for the diff end of your G8 driveshaft as well as some sleeve type spacer to make up for different size bolts, but I don't have any information on this or know anyone who has done the swap.

2010-2015 Chevrolet Camaro:

• Rear subframe (also referred to as cradle or crossmember)
  • It would seem in 2012 they made a secret upgrade to the sway bar bracket bolts. My 2010 subframe has 8mm bolts but the 2012+ lists a 10mm bolt. The subframe PN did not change even though the threaded nuts are welded to it for the sway bar bracket bolts. Just something to be aware of if looking at an individual subframe.
  • Make sure to get the wiring harness for the wheel speed sensors with it. It will connect to body side then provide a plug next to each upper control arm for the sensors to connect to.
• (Left and right) Rear upper control arm and bushing, with 5x bolts and 2x nuts
  • If you order these new, they come with the bushing and the bolt that attaches it to the control arm
  • 2 bolts hold on the bushing to the subframe
  • One bolt and nut through the other two mounting points
• (Left and right) Rear trailing arm, with 2x bolts and 1x nut
• (Left and right) Rear toe rod, with 2x bolts
• (Left and right) Rear lower control arm, with 2x bolts and 2x nuts
• (Left and right) Rear knuckle (complete with wheel speed sensor, rotor shield, brakes, hub, etc)
• (Left and right) CV axle

2008-2009 Pontiac G8:

• (Left and right) Your choice of aftermarket rear coilover, complete
  • The G8 rear shock is a tad longer than the Camaro (30mm in the case of BC Racing). On my initial swap, I used a complete Camaro rear assembly and had to max it out on ride height to get the car sitting right (and my fronts were at max low). When they needed replacing, I put in complete G8 assemblies instead and I now have much better adjust-ability. Also see "Lower Shock Mount" section.
• (4x) Rear cradle to body bolts

Sway bar options:

• Re-use your existing
  • Requires custom brackets or welding due to the differences in mounting
• 2010-2015 Chevrolet Camaro (narrow bar)
  • Requires cutting spare tire well
• 2012-2015 Chevrolet Camaro (wide bar)
  • Requires cutting spare tire well
  • Requires 2012-2015 Camaro lower control arms for mounting points
  • Requires fixed brakes (i.e. Brembos)
• 2014-2017 Chevrolet SS (narrow bar)
  • Does NOT require cutting spare tire well
• 2015-2017 Chevrolet SS (wide bar)
  • Does NOT require cutting spare tire well
  • Requires 2012-2015 Camaro lower control arms for mounting points
  • Requires fixed brakes (i.e. Brembos)

Differential options

• Re-use your existing
• Camaro SS gear ratios:
  • 3.27 (auto)
  • 3.45 (manual)
  • 3.91 (manual with 1LE or Z/28)
• SS gear ratios:
  • 3.27 (auto)
  • 3.70 (manual)
• Caprice PPV gear ratio: 2.92

Instructions

Preparation:

1. [Optional] Installing new bushings (not inserts)
   1. Using BMR full poly bushings? See this comment
   2. Remove the metal cups on the bottom of the factory bushings with a pry bar, you will re-use these with poly bushings. Then follow either the sawzall or PVC press method for removing the bushing.
   3. Sawzall method:
      1. Use a hole saw, preferably the largest one you have that will fit inside of the bushing, to cut out the center of the bushing.
      2. Take a sawzall and carefully cut through the side. The goal here is to not even so much as nick the cradle.
      3. Hammer out the bushing
         
         
   4. PVC bushing press method:
      1. Tools needed:
         1. 4" PVC DMV cleanout
         2. 4" PVC DMV cleanout plug
         3. 3/4"x12" threaded rod
         4. 4x 3/4" washers
         5. 2x 3/4" nuts
         6. 2x large crescent wrenches (or anything else that fits the nuts)
         7. Small sledge hammer
         8. Torch
      2. Assemble the 4" cleanout with the plug
      3. Drill a hole in the center of the cleanout plug just big enough for the threaded rod (I used a hole saw)
      4. Place the assembled PVC cup on the bottom of the bushing, plug side down
      5. Feed the threaded rod through the center of the bushing and the plug
      6. Install 2 washers and a nut on the bottom of the rod
      7. Install the other 2 washers and nut on the top
      8. Tighten the nuts until decently tight
         
      9. Using the torch, carefully heat up the side of the cradle where the bushing is. Be careful not to melt your PVC.
      10. Continue tightening the PVC press. The bushing may start "popping" followed by the nuts feeling looser, this is good
      11. Re-apply heat as necessary (i.e. if the metal cools to the touch)
      12. Once the bushing bottoms out on the press, remove the press and use the small sledge hammer to finish it off
          
      13. Repeat for the other three bushings
   5. Use a bushing press or really large C clamp, press in new bushings (they're a bit of a PITA). If you did the PVC press method, the threaded rod with washers and nuts should work fine here as well.
2. Rewire wheel speed sensors
   1. Cut the large plug plus a few inches of wiring (I'd say at least 6in to be safe) from your factory cradle harness
   2. Cut the plug end off the Camaro harness
   3. Passenger side G8 grey wire goes to Camaro brown wire
   4. Driver side G8 grey wire goes to Camaro tan wire
   5. Remaining two wires are both ground
3. Clean it (Seriously, no need to put extra dirt on your car)
4. Fully assemble your new coilovers
   1. Don't forget the bump stops and dust boots
   2. Re-use the factory washers for both sides of the upper mount
   3. Torque the top nut to 33 lb-ft

Removal:

1. Raise the car high. I had it on blocks 16" tall. The more room to work, the better.
2. Drop the back half of your exhaust, exact instructions vary based on what system is on your car
3. Disconnect driveshaft
4. Disconnect ABS harness, plug is located near the front of the subframe between the driveshaft tunnel and the passenger side subframe body mount
5. Disconnect the parking brake cables from the back of knuckles
6. Disconnect brake lines
7. Remove lower shock bolts
8. Support the cradle with a floor jack and a block of wood. Just raise the jack until the block of wood puts a very minor amount of pressure against the diff and/or the cross braces on either side of the diff
9. Undo the 4 bolts holding the cradle to the body. These may be tough, even my big impact won't get them loose when they're frozen up good, and I don't recommend trying with anything too high torque. You really don't want these to be the bolts you break. I usually go with a very big breaker bar.
10. Lower the jack slowly. I've found that with the right block of wood and proper positioning, it pretty much balances itself.
11. Remove cradle and put aside. Scrap or sell whatever you're not going to use off of it.
12. Remove the 4 bolts on each upper shock mount and remove the factory coilovers (or whatever you had in there previously)

Since you're already most of the way there, feel free to drop your fuel tank and install a fuel pump access hatch. Probably the most convenient time you'll ever have to do it.

Installation:

1. The only two items you absolutely have to attach to the cradle before bolting it to the car is the upper control arms and toe rods (toe adjustment bolt inserts from the front and the fuel tank pretty much prevents you from getting the bolt in with the cradle installed).
   1. And the only thing you absolutely should NOT attach ahead of time is the coilovers. Leave the outside lower control arm bolt loose for this reason as well.
   2. Sway bar end links should be disconnected if present
   3. Torque the upper control bolts. These are near impossible to get to once the cradle is installed in the car and therefore difficult to torque under load like the other bolts.
      1. Upper control arm to bushing to frame bolt torque (the bolts that hold the rearward bushing to the top of the cradle): 37 lb-ft + 120 degrees
      2. Upper control arm to bushing bolt torque: 118 lb-ft
      3. Upper control arm ball joint to frame: 59 lb-ft + 120 degrees
   4. Do not torque any other bolts until instructed
2. Jack the cradle up until it touches the unibody, ensuring the rearward bushings go over the body alignment pins.
3. Re-install bolts and torque to 48 lb-ft + 125 degrees
4. Install any of the following parts you didn't pre-install on the cradle. My recommended order:
   1. Differential, torque bolts to 59 lb-ft
   2. Re-attach driveshaft to differential, torque bolts to 85 lb-ft
   3. Trailing arms
   4. Axles
   5. Knuckles (insert axle end, loosely thread nut to hold in place, then attach knuckle to trailing arm, toe rod, and upper control arm)
   6. Lower control arm (do not install outer bolt yet)
   7. Wheel speed sensor, attach wiring to tabs on top of toe rods, then plug into the cradle harness. If not already attached to knuckle, torque bolt to 62 lb-in (that's INCHES, not FEET)
   8. Sway bar. With the sway bar level with the ground, torque bracket bolts to:
      1. M8 bolts: 16 lb-ft
      2. M10 bolts: 43 lb-ft
5. Install new coilovers
   1. Put the upper mount into the hole in the body. This may take some finagling to get around the upper control arm.
   2. Snug bolts into place, do not torque yet
   3. Bring lower control arm up to the shock bottom and loosely install lower shock mount bolt
   4. Place your floor jack directly under the lower shock mount and jack it up until you can install the outer lower control arm bolt. You may have to use a screwdriver or pry bar to get the bolt hole in the bushing where you need it.
6. Install sway bar end links
7. With the jack still under the lower shock mount, continue jacking up until the car just lifts off the jack stands or whatever is supporting the car
8. Torque everything remaining
   1. Lower control arm to knuckle: 30 lb-ft + 120 degrees
   2. Lower control arm to subframe: 85 lb-ft
   3. Lower shock mount to lower control arm: 59 lb-ft + 120 degrees
      1. If using the smaller G8 bolt here, torque is 30 lb-ft + 120 degrees
   4. Sway bar endlinks:
      1. Narrow bar: 36 lb-ft
      2. Wide bar: 19 lb-ft
   5. Toe rod to knuckle: 103 lb-ft
   6. Toe rod to subframe: 85 lb-ft
   7. Trailing arm to knuckle: 30 lb-ft + 120 degrees
   8. Trailing arm to subframe: 74 lb-ft
   9. Upper control to knuckle: 44 lb-ft + 120 degrees
   10. Upper shock mount to body: 43 lb-ft
9. Repeat steps 5-7 on other side
10. Plug in ABS harness
11. Route parking brake cables behind the front subframe bushings. There's tabs above the inner trailing arm mounting point meant to hold it, mine didn't fit in those.
12. Attach parking brake to back of knuckle
    1. Ensure the parking brake is currently released inside of the car
    2. Hook the end to the lever on the back of the knuckle
    3. Pull the lever back with a pair of pliers then slip the parking brake cable into the knuckle
13. Install brakes (torque specs below assume Brembo brakes)
    1. Install rotor. If your new rotors do not have an "adjustment" hole for the parking brake, I recommend doing the adjustment now before you put the calipers on
    2. Install calipers, torque bolts to 30 lb-ft + 90 degrees
    3. Attach brake hose, torque banjo bolt to 30 lb-ft
    4. Bleed the brakes
14. Adjust parking brake
    1. Remove small trim piece behind the cupholders
    2. Loosen the park brake cable adjustment bolt (1) several turns to allow slack in the park brake rear cables
       
       
       
    3. Install 2 wheel nuts to opposite wheel studs to retain the brake rotor to the hub
    4. Ensure the rotor can spin and doesn't bind
    5. Using a suitable lever such as a screwdriver, tighten the adjuster nut (1), until the brake disc is locked
       
       
       
    6. Loosen the adjuster nut 3-5 clicks. Make sure that the brake disc is free and does not bind
    7. Apply the parking brake until the lever is extended 4-6 clicks
    8. Tighten the park brake cable adjustment bolt to remove any excess slack from the park brake cable
    9. Install a wheel and ensure you cannot turn it
    10. Release the parking brake and ensure the wheel spins freely
15. Re-install exhaust
16. Install both wheels and torque lug nuts to 125 lb-ft
17. Go get an alignment

Lower Shock Mount
Since the Camaro uses a 2mm larger bolt for the lower mount, you either have to re-use your G8 bolts and live with the fact that the holes on the lower control arm are oversized (not ideal) or you change out your lower mount for the Camaro one. How you accomplish the latter option might vary depending on the brand of coilovers.

For BC Racing, they have three different series available: BR, DS, and ER. Both BR and DS can easily screw off the lower mount and replace it with a Camaro lower mount, PN Q-04-R-LM. The ER series however, is not as easy due to the remote reservoir. In my case, I had previously used Camaro fitment BC BR series, so I just pressed out the bushing and swapped it into my new lower shock mount. If you're starting from scratch and going with ER series, additionally order two of the BR/DS lower mounts and press the bushings out of them. A C clamp, something to go over the bushing (at least 1.25" and hollow) such as a PVC coupler, and a piece of wood is all you need to press it out. The new ones popped out much easier than my old ones.

 

[yutzybrian]

Brake Line Information

This information applies to both front and rear, so I am giving it its own section. Thanks to inov8rPPV for pointing this out to me.

When comparing the Camaro and the G8 brake lines, they use completely different flarings where the flexible line meets the hard line on the body side. The G8 uses an ISO bubble flaring whereas the Camaro uses an inverted flaring. They also differ in how they mount to the strut (front) or upper control arm (rear), the G8 has a little disc style that slots into the tab whereas the Camaro has a bolt on tab.

These inconsistencies leave you with two options:

1. Re-flare the hard lines on your G8 to be inverted and use Camaro brake lines
2. Use something like a zip tie to hold your G8 brake lines to the mounting points on the struts and upper control arms

If you decide to use Camaro brake lines, you will also need to do a bit of modding to swap the bracket from your G8 lines to the new ones. The G8 front hoses and body side bracket are integrated. The Camaro lines do not come with this bracket. To fix this you have to basically cut the hose out of the bracket.

There are two tab looking pieces where I circled, if you wanted to keep the hose intact you could attempt only cutting those...

...or do what I did and just cut the whole end off! I have no use for the rubber hoses after this anyways. And yup, I bent the bracket while hammering on the hose, I fixed it with said hammer afterwards.

Little bit of grinding and it fits through the hole

Finished products. I threw a quick coat of chassis paint on the brackets for rust prevention.

Fully installed

 

[yutzybrian]

Done for the night, I'll continue to build out the rear suspension section this week. I'm going to take much better photos next time I work on the car as well. I still have front and rear suspension work to finish up, so it'll be the perfect time to kind of walk through it mentally.

 

[PONY MAN]

For those considering the swap, about how much should be budgeted for the project?

 

[yutzybrian]

For those considering the swap, about how much should be budgeted for the project?

That really is going to vary widely based on several things:

1. The specific coilovers desired
2. Whether or not to re-use some of their existing G8 parts where possible (such as diff, toe rods, and trailing arms)
3. Whether to buy the required factory parts from a junkyard or brand new
4. If buying from junkyard, local prices
5. What performance level is being targeted (decides things such as which sway bar and bushings)

In 2018, I got my 2010 Camaro SS cradle for $500. It was complete all the way, even including the Brembo brakes, except for the diff since I was using mine that I had already built. Front components from various junkyards totaled another few hundred. All of this was from vehicles with around 30k. But then I basically doubled what I spent by adding a bunch of polyurethane bushings, upgraded toe rods, upgraded trailing arms, and 1LE sway bar. The coilovers alone are setting you back at least $1300 but probably more like $1500+ when you order the pieces in the individual style I detailed above. And you certainly cannot forget about the possibility of new wheels and tires if your current ones do not clear Brembo brakes.

With the constantly fluctuating prices of everything, I would say take the parts lists given above and start shopping around. Make a list and total up the best prices you can find, don't forget to figure tax and shipping where required. Just to ballpark an absolute bare minimum though, you could probably accomplish a complete swap for under $3k if your local junkyards aren't greedy and you don't upgrade anything any further.

 

[yutzybrian]

Made some progress on the revisions to my rear cradle this weekend. Last time I dropped the cradle, I noticed my cradle wasn't quite aligned right. The Camaro as it turns out uses 2mm larger bolts for the cradle to unibody. This means their body alignment pins are slightly larger as well. It also explains why my rear toes was constantly out of whack every time I got an alignment.

Since I already had BMR poly bushings, I took some measurements and asked a friend who does machining if they could make me a custom set of inserts. The custom aluminum one is on the left, both original BMRs on the right.

Here's the difference more easily viewable

And on the body side, you can no longer see a gap up the side. It was a pretty snug fit while still sliding on without any extra force.

And finally pressed into the poly bushing

Dimensions of the custom sleeve are as follows:
ID: .960"
OD: 1.627"
Height: 3.365"

The person who made mine would be interested in making more if anyone is interested. We're more or less floating the idea as a pre-order situation. I also have a local shop that can do hard coat anodization, not sure of the extra cost. I didn't get it done to mine due to time. I opted to just to clean up the body alignment pin and surrounding area then hit with a couple coats of chassis paint to hopefully keep any corrosion between dissimilar materials at bay.

 

[yutzybrian]

I also put together a permanent mounting solution for my rear shock reservoirs.

The initial problem due to my wide sway bar. It's way too close for comfort, it would definitely hit when cornering.

So I started looking for some form of clamp that would allow me to mount it where the narrow sway bar end link would attach. I discovered that 2" truss clamps (normally used for mounting equipment such as lighting) were perfect. I did have to clearance the mounting location a little bit, I'm not concerned though as any of the metal I removed from the control arm was purely to carry the load from the sway bar style I will never use again on my G8.

The truss clamps come with wing nuts, lock washers, and fairly thin flat washers. I switched these out with thicker flat washers and nylon insert lock nuts. I also added a flat washer between the clamp body and the mounting point.

All done. I pointed the hose end of the reservoir slightly forward on both sides so if the hose needs to flex outward a bit, it won't be at risk of binding or twisting in an awkward way (which it probably would be if I did it just straight back).

 

[sp44]

When I first saw this post I was all gung ho and then I read and read and I'm out. Great write-up though!

 

[yutzybrian]

When I first saw this post I was all gung ho and then I read and read and I'm out. Great write-up though!

It's a lot of work to do right, definitely requires a certain level of commitment. Thank you!