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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I feel that others need to know what happened to my car at Powerhuas Performance in Gloucester City, NJ. I had work done on my 2009 Pontiac G8 GT with roughly 37,000 miles at the time. Just facts, tune and datalog files, pictures, & video.

Here is a list of what was requested. Dropped the car off on April 16th. It wasn't done in time. Actually picked the car up on the evening of the 30th.

  • ARH Long Tube Headers and install
  • Custom Exhaust work to connect headers to existing Borla X-pipe
  • Circle-D 3200 stall converter and install
  • H&R coil springs and install
  • Roll fenders
  • Powder Coat brake calipers
  • Powder Coat my new wheels
  • Order Hankook tires and TPMS
  • "Performance" Alignment
  • NGK plugs
Here is a list of problems

  • Brake pedal to the floor. Rear calipers on wrong side(upside down). Air in ABS module.
  • Passenger side of exhaust knocking transmission mount
  • Drivers side of exhaust severely scraping
  • Exhaust leaks
  • Use of non stainless steel adapters
  • Passenger exhaust pipe repeatedly falling off of hanger
  • Exhaust tips out of alignment on both side, one side touching plastic diffuser.
  • Strut Mount Knock. I was told afterwords that during the spring install the Bearings fell apart and rolled away on the floor and they where put back on the car. They did not inform me or offer to replace.
  • OTR CAI (Over The Radiator Cold Air Intake) installed over radiator support which left the radiator free to flop around and the hood closed on it pinching the intake. Hood is now slightly out of place. But CAI undamaged.
  • Stalled several times on cold starts. (never did this before)
  • RPM surging.
  • Converter locking and unlocking erratically.
  • some shifts laggy.
  • some shifts super hard.
  • 3-2 downshift too hard. Chirped tires.
  • Confusion in auto and sport shift when going WOT
  • Slower in 1/4 mile with better weather, DA, and better 60'
  • Four attempts to make adjustments to tune. Some things got better, some things got worse.
  • Cracked paint on fender. However keep in mind that G8 paint is known to be thin. I'll give'em that one.
Video of me showing some symptoms.


http://youtu.be/tUbgPIs7Ahc

Spreadsheet, datalog, & HPT

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4_1kxVkiQKVRTZMaXVpcU1JVW8/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4_1kxVkiQKVQ205R3JFWTExSlk/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4_1kxVkiQKVdG9MRGxrdlZtQ0k/edit?usp=sharing



Video from the Powerhaus youtube page. You can see the exhaust problems.



Pictures of exhaust.









 

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Discussion Starter #2




















They have made 4 attempts to fix the tune. I took a day off work to take them the car. Had to rent a car. They did replace a failed oxygen sensor for free. Also went for a few rides with me and datalogged briefly. Not sure how it was missed because our datalogs picked it up immediately. I've called and emailed them about the problems. They stopped responding to my emails. The last time I went to the shop to talk about it during normal business hours noone was there. I've called more then enough times but no answer. I was really understanding about it for too long. Four opportunities to correct the problems is more than enough.

What I've done since.

  • Paid exhaust shop to fix the exhaust.
  • Paid the dealer to purge the ABS module.
  • New alignment after new strut mounts.
  • Paid a tuner to datalog, load stock tune, and make slight adjustments just to get it drivable with the aftermarket converter. (Better at the track in worse conditions and a worse 60')
  • Still waiting on phonecall for my wheels and tires.
 

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I hope that was you driving the car during the burnout in their youtube video....
 

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Discussion Starter #4

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I looked at your tune in the other thread you had and wanted to give you my .02 cents, it's fairly clear in the tune why your aftermarket converter is running erratically, your converter is using the factory verter locking approach with an aftermarket verter, if you keep running that approach, your trans would overheat, and eventually fail. Yank uses a very good material in their locking clutches, but it's not what the factory uses, and thus, won't live as long as the stocker with the factory locking approach.

Also, you have a big block of timing in your timing table, 23.5* fix for the most part, did you know about this? your timing map is flat like the Bonneville salt flats... except at 4400-5200 where it goes to 22.5*, also i don't know what your tuner wanted to accomplished setting AFR stoich at 14.77, mpg perhaps ?, lol, the car would feel sluggish like this during cruise, really, stock AFR for gas (E0) is 14.68, account for ethanol in you gas, and that number goes down to 14.40 to 14.1 depending on how much ethanol the gas station is adding, so why mess with it this way ?

Trans shift points are stock, they just changed the shift rpm, which would accomplish nothing really other than perhaps confuse the trans at a WOT shift, oncoming/offgoing pressures changed, why would somebody screw with the presets if the trans clutches are stock? other than that, you have faster shift times, which don't look bad, but perhaps the change in the 3-2 power shift torque inertia profile is what is giving you torubles with the 3-2 downshift,

If they have done this 5 times already, and haven't realized their little mickey mouses yet, they're more likely copying and pasting changes in the tune, and shooting the arrows in any direction to see if they can catch a bird :), the MAF seems to be tuned, but who knows what your fuel is doing without a WB to verify. i've seeing tooners just add 5% to the entire table and called it a day. The ones in Michigan are famous for this.... and they call it a tune, lol.

Good luck.
 

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Now, if i'm reading your post right, your car ran better with the stock timing than with this tune?, are you using 91 octane ?
 

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Also, you have a big block of timing in your timing table, 23.5* fix for the most part, did you know about this? your timing map is flat like the Bonneville salt flats... except at 4400-5200 where it goes to 22.5*
and they said I was full of it when I said this about my nitrous tune.
 

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Lol, they literally took the 22-24* that L76 seems to like to the teeth :), tooners....
 

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Good grief what is the 4th thread? At least you started it this time instead of your buddy. We've gone round and round about your issues... what exactly are you hoping to accomplish in this thread that hasn't been addressed in the last three?

Didn't you bring them an exhaust or midpipe that doesn't mate up to the headers you ordered, yet you wanted them to make it work. If you wanted a perfect fitting exhaust then you should have just ordered the midpipe that was engineered to mate with your headers like everyone else does. Sounds like you tried to save a buck and ended up costing you more in the long run. Powerhaus said they pointed this out beforehand and you said to make it work, sometimes making it work comes with disadvantages.

You knew the strut mounts were bad when you brought your car there, why didn't you buy new ones so they could install them with the springs?

The co-owner of Powerhaus offered to refund your money for the tune, go get it when you pick up your wheels... hopefully you credit card doesn't get declined again.

m3ntal said:
We are here EVERYDAY from 9am-6pm. Often times way past 6pm...We are also here just about every Saturday. The only time we have been closed was for OCMD and it was posted. Also, I check the call log daily and have no calls from Mike! Incredible. No messages from him either! We sent him an email a few days ago to let him know that his wheels were done being powdercoated but still haven't heard back from him! Often times we would get 6-7 email responses from him a day but now he won't respond to any emails about coming to get his wheels?? Instead, we are being blamed for poor communication.


Again, I offered you a refund on your tune if you were unhappy with it. Instead, I was accused of not being confident in our work. Why didn't you come in for your refund? What gives?

Also, you KNEW about your strut bearings being bad. YOU TOLD US YOU TOOK IT TO THE DEALER FOR WARRANTY WORK BUT THEY DID NOT WANT TO HELP YOU. Why didn't you ask us to replace them????? Again, this is just being used to discredit our shop.

We have modified and tuned many cars since opening and you are the ONLY customer that has complained about all these issues we created. I find that overly odd. 1998silverbird has had some kinda of personal vendetta with us since day one. I don't know what his problem is. He has actually made up things that were completely untrue like the time he said a certain blue z06 had a huge dip in power after we tuned it. Newsflash, it had the huge dips when we baselined it! We also have never met him or dealt with him in person so I'm having a hard time trying to understand why he is talking **** about Powerhaus every chance he gets!

Here is a private message from 01slpss:


"Powerhaus Performance
We are just clearing the air with what your acquaintance is saying to bad mouth our shop when he has not had any first hand experience with us.
And as for reference you did bad mouth us publicly on facebook, which is your opinion you are entitled to. But Jeff was using your vehicle as a direct complaint against us that is the only reason your situation was brought up.

As for the 23* set across the timing table, I am not sure at what you were looking at because this is your timing table in the car when it left our shop. And we did pull extra timing in case you wanted to up the shot.

:screenshot of tune here:

May 9Kevin Garretson
well from here on out Im out of this. I do not know whats going on or why jeff is shooting his mouth off. I knew you and mike were trying really hard to figure out what was going on and jeff made it increasingly difficult. That timing table is nothing like what I saw when we pulled up the tune, so i dont know what had happened. Bottom line, Im out of this any future posts or anything that goes on Im not involved in, Ive told jeff to let it go several times already. I wish you guys the best."

Who is pulling the tunes from these cars? Is it the same person? Sounds like a possible conspiracy to me considering Roshan sent a screen shot of Kevin's car and it was nothing like what Kevin said he pulled from the car. Also, MGM GT has seen Roshans tunes in multiple cars and notes that the Red G8's tune is completely uncharacteristic of all the tunes he has seen. There has been DOZENS and DOZENS of happy G8 customers with custom tunes by Powerhaus. Hmmm...
m3ntal said:
@uncko macko

You say we weren't there May 22 at 12:19pm....is it possible that maybe we were at lunch that day during lunch time??

Also, I know for a fact Roshan sent you an email a day after the wheels showed up to our shop to let you know that the wheels were in and that since your credit card was denied twice for the last bill that we would need to run it again. Anyway, your wheels are here! We would love it if you came to pick them up along with your new tires. We are there Monday-Sat 9am to 6pm. Sometimes we go to lunch and eat though.

We tried to do everything for Mike to satisfy him. He came in multiple times complaining about his shifts and Roshan tried adjusting it for him based on his complaints. Roshan went for a test drive with him to see how he could fix it. I went for an hour long test drive with Mike and the problems couldn't be replicated. The exhaust did rattle a bit in the last 10 mins. When we got back from the test drive I dropped what I was doing and pulled a car off the lift to inspect it. I still think there is a possible problem with the torque converter but the tune is still being blamed. We have had 20+ g8s come through the shop in two months and no one BUT Mike has voiced any complaints. I am 100 percent confident the engine tuning aspect of the tune is good. We tried to help him in every situation UNTIL we saw his group of friends bad mouthing us on facebook. That was the last straw unfortunately.

As for the rear calipers being on the wrong side it was a simple mistake. The bleeder nipples were on the bottom instead of the top. I fixed it on the spot for him.

One of his ABS wires came loose for some reason and it was throwing a code and I had the alignment shop fix it for him while it was there. I was billed for it and did not charge Mike a penny.

Mike called me one day and told me his lady friends water pump blew up on her Mazda CX7. I took that car in the very next day and sourced parts for it even though I was booked for the next couple days and fixed it for her.

ALL of the delays that happened were solely because of the powdercoating which I had no control over. 1998silverbird just makes it out to be Powerhaus' fault for being slow or incompetent. You should see some of the projects that we have completed with very happy customers.

Yes he spent nearly 6k but a MAJORITY of that was in parts and powdercoating. Not to mention his friends tab for the Mazda was on there. Our prices were super fair for all the installations. I think we charged $100-$150 to make his existing exhaust fit up to his new headers which was not an easy task. It was also tig welded together. Many hours spent trying to get parts that weren't meant to go together to work because he did not want to buy the proper X-pipe. I surely lost out on that one.

1998silverbird,

You say we haven't returned any of his calls or emails but that is 100 percent untrue. Mike just said he hasn't emailed or called in the last month. How could I return a phone call if he hasn't called? I check calls every morning. Emails go straight to my phone...but none from Mike. We answer every phone call that comes through unless we are on the dyno and literally can't hear anything. I am wearing ear protection when the dyno is going. If I missed your call I am truely sorry. I have checked the caller ID and haven't seen anything on there.

You truly think our tuner doesn't know what hes doing? He has tuned countless 1000+ rwp cars. A LOT of cars he has tuned has gone 10's or faster. 135 mph+ in the traps....all tuned on OUR MUSTANG DYNO.........1000's of LS motors at his previous place of employment. He has had proper training and schooling in tuning. He is focused and knows how to troubleshoot problems. Hes one of the best in the industry.

I just find it odd that out of all the cars that have come through the shop the only complaints and bad mouthing are from a group of friends. Literally. I do not understand it. Please link up any other complaints about our shop from other people besides your group of friends that all had their tunes pulled by some person "that wishes to remain anonymous".

This will be my last message here on out. To our customers that are happy with the service and results please post positive things and thank you for your support.
 

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I looked at your tune in the other thread you had and wanted to give you my .02 cents, it's fairly clear in the tune why your aftermarket converter is running erratically, your converter is using the factory verter locking approach with an aftermarket verter, if you keep running that approach, your trans would overheat, and eventually fail. Yank uses a very good material in their locking clutches, but it's not what the factory uses, and thus, won't live as long as the stocker with the factory locking approach.

Also, you have a big block of timing in your timing table, 23.5* fix for the most part, did you know about this? your timing map is flat like the Bonneville salt flats... except at 4400-5200 where it goes to 22.5*, also i don't know what your tuner wanted to accomplished setting AFR stoich at 14.77, mpg perhaps ?, lol, the car would feel sluggish like this during cruise, really, stock AFR for gas (E0) is 14.68, account for ethanol in you gas, and that number goes down to 14.40 to 14.1 depending on how much ethanol the gas station is adding, so why mess with it this way ?

Trans shift points are stock, they just changed the shift rpm, which would accomplish nothing really other than perhaps confuse the trans at a WOT shift, oncoming/offgoing pressures changed, why would somebody screw with the presets if the trans clutches are stock? other than that, you have faster shift times, which don't look bad, but perhaps the change in the 3-2 power shift torque inertia profile is what is giving you torubles with the 3-2 downshift,

If they have done this 5 times already, and haven't realized their little mickey mouses yet, they're more likely copying and pasting changes in the tune, and shooting the arrows in any direction to see if they can catch a bird :), the MAF seems to be tuned, but who knows what your fuel is doing without a WB to verify. i've seeing tooners just add 5% to the entire table and called it a day. The ones in Michigan are famous for this.... and they call it a tune, lol.

Good luck.
I agree with the problems and it doesn't look like Roshans work, I've personally had a bunch of tunes by Roshan and seen a bunch of other tunes hes done for NA, supercharged, strokers, etc you name it that dont look like this. The changes made to the tune that was posted don't make any sense like you pointed out, it looks like someone deliberately changed stuff just to make it look bad. There is an unknown party messing with the tune after it left Powerhaus so keep that in mind. Although he said he was using a Circle-D not a yank but I know the point your getting at.

Its pretty funny to have someone complain about a downshift that chirps tires... other people like to be able to do this and brag about it.
 

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The third party tuner merely pulled the tune for me. I am a college kid I couldnt afford to pay for another tune. As of now my car is still on the powerhaus tune. That was untouched because I did not buy the hptuners credits for the third party to change anything. Mikes car was simply flashed to a slightly modified stock tune for the time being.

In all honesty I could not tell you what my n/a tune was. It ran its balls off roshan did an awesome job on that one. Ill admit the first time I got the car tuned I was new to the whole car scene and did not know much other than how to turn a wrench. Tuning was a different language to me which is why I paid to have roshan do it. Again he did a great job on my motor tune.

The car was set up for a 100 shot. I was told they pulled some additional timing incase I decided to up the shot. It was a bolt-ons car running 100 shot on ngk br7ef plugs which were recommended by nitrous outlet.
 

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The third party tuner merely pulled the tune for me. I am a college kid I couldnt afford to pay for another tune. As of now my car is still on the powerhaus tune. That was untouched because I did not buy the credits for the third party to change anything. Mikes car was simply flashed to a slightly modified stock tune for the time being.
So your a college kid that cant afford a tune but wants to spray nitrous... brilliant idea. Let me guess this is your daily driver too?

Why would you need to buy credits for the tuner to change it? Professional tuners have cars unlocked in HPT, I'm not even a tuner but I have Year/Model licenses unlocked. Or is the guy who is pulling your tunes not a professional tuner...
 

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In all honesty I could not tell you what my n/a tune was. It ran its balls off roshan did an awesome job on that one. Ill admit the first time I got the car tuned I was new to the whole car scene and did not know much other than how to turn a wrench. Tuning was a different language to me which is why I paid to have roshan do it. Again he did a great job on my motor tune.

The car was set up for a 100 shot. I was told they pulled some additional timing incase I decided to up the shot. It was a bolt-ons car running 100 shot on ngk br7ef plugs which were recommended by nitrous outlet.
Then what else changed? You wont notice a couple degrees of timing pulled from the NA tune for a 100 shot. Its not going to affect driveability, my car still ran 11's NA on a nitrous tune. Someone said you had a fuel leak when the kit was turned out so I assume it was a wet kit, if so you don't need to make tune changes other then a little timing for such a small shot, even so if you read the plugs you might be able to add some back in.

Do you have any codes, have a sensor go bad, etc... Too many times poor maintenance or crappy parts is blamed on the tuner. Oh my car was great then it went to ****... yet the owner drives the piss out of the car and doesn't do routine maintenance and installed some crap parts in the mean time.
 

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No I cannot afford to pay someone to do the same job twice...If it was done correctly the first time I would not have to worry about it. There is nothing wrong with modifying a car while on a budget, Im 20 years old in school, I have a job not a career. My apologizes for trying to make my car what I want 12$ an hour.

As for the qualifications of the new tuner is irrelevant. He hasnt touched my car to change anything. Merely pulled it up and showed me what was going on. He has not tuned my car so I have not once said his was better. He is someone I trust and thats good enough for me.

If that does not prove to be good enough for you then Im sorry that I cannot live to your expectations.


The fuel leak was at the plate. The lines were loose. That was the only issue with the kit. The solenoids fired fine, I even upgraded solenoids from dyno tune to nx solenoids. The car through no codes and still runs fine. But my car went a best of [email protected] on motor on a dr with a 1.8 60..Last time I ran on motor on my nitrous tune my best was [email protected] with a 1.7 60' on street tires.

I will say the first time I sprayed on the track, I did not have a tall enough tire and needed 5th gear. (nitrous noob move I know) it fouled out my plugs and oxygen sensor, I talked to roshan he confirmed that using 5th gear was the issue. I was happy with this service as it was merely a message i asked on his personal fb account and he quickly responded. We both agreed a taller tire was needed. I bought 27" slicks, replaced plugs and the sensors still ran the same times as I did when I needed 5th gear. [email protected] I changed plugs every time nothing changed.
 

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Thank you for sharing your review of the shop.
For anyone interested here are the three other threads created about this situation.

Powerhaus Update
Powerhaus performance
Who's white hot GXP at Powerhaus Performance?

Yet again, this topic is being taken over by someone other than the Original Poster.
Some people have bad reviews of this place while others have good reviews of this place.
Let's just leave it at that.

We don't need people jumping to defend the shop in every thread where it's mentioned and by the same
token we don't need people badmouthing the place in every thread it's mentioned.
Everyone is entitled to their opnion and I think this topic has been covered well enough.
Let's keep the personal agendas out of this and take this situation for what it is.

:ibtl:
 
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