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Discussion Starter #1
I recently replaced the toe rods and trailing arms in the rear of my car and shortly after had a 4 wheel alignment done. Afterwards, the steering wheel was slightly off center, but not enough to make me go sit and wait for another 2 hours to be fixed. The car pulled slightly to the right, but they warned me that it might happen because right front tire had less tread than the left (which is true; that one came off the rear).

Today I had my even set of Bridgestones switched to the front and a new pair of Eagle F1s put on the rear and all four balanced. So I took the car in for another alignment (different shop) now that all of the tires were in good shape. They immediately came out and told me that all of the front and rear settings were way out and began to make adjustments. They returned the car and said everything was now in spec, but the car wants to pull when it hits a bump, which is painfully true now. The only positive thing is that my car drives straight when the steering wheel is straight.

*It wants to wander mostly to the right, but sometimes will veer to the left also.
*It pulls extremely hard to the right when I brake hard.
*When it does randomly pull, it takes a good bit of effort fighting it to go straight.

I think it's partly due to tramlining, but this is excessive. Has anyone had this issue and found a fix? All of my tires are OEM sized 245/40/19 and have plenty of tread. Any input would be appreciated.

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Noticeable increases in tramlining are frequently uncovered when drivers living in the snowbelt make the seasonal changeover from winter tires to summer tires, or when any driver upgrades the performance of their tires using either the same size or going to a "Plus Size" tire and wheel package. The reason that it becomes more pronounced then is because neither the typically narrower and softer handling winter tires nor the Original Equipment tires generate as much grip or responsiveness as the higher performance summer tires. Since the vehicle's suspension works as a complete package, a higher performance tire will also uncover any previously unnoticed looseness in the rest of the suspension.
Although I am still concerned as to why your alignment was so badly out after a recent alignment...one of the shops machine's has to be out of calibration. I would recommend going to the dealer or a specialty alignment shop that has a good reputation with our cars in your local area & getting it checked one last time.
 

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I don't know what you are paying for alignments, but we charge $80 at the dealer. Sounds like it is still out of whack. Toe being toed out too far will cause a pull either way and you will get excesive bump steer. Get if fixed QUICK before you eat up your tires. Tell them to print of the spec sheet when they are done. It will show GM specs compared to what your car is at.

One more thing. Not to be rude, but are you a heavy guy? That can also throw an alignment off. Either you sitting in the seat or using weight bags while doing the alignment will help. Do you normally have passengers in the rear?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I drove it to work this morning and it was a little better. One thing I didn't notice was that they cranked my tire pressure up to 39psi all the way around, so I'm going to bring it down to 35 and see if that makes a difference. The ride was stiff yesterday, but I figured it was because of the new tires; I didn't think to check over inflation.

A few shops I called were close to $100 for an alignment, so I didn't even bother calling the dealer; I figured they'd be even higher. I paid $80 at belle tire and they gave me a 6 month/6k mile warranty. I took it to a different location for the second alignment, so it didn't cost me anything extra. I don't think they do any type of steering/suspension work, so I'm wondering if they even checked the tie rods to make sure everything was tight first.

I'm not a heavy guy, I'm only 145 lbs lol. I see what you were getting at with the weight offset, but I rarely have anything in the backseat or trunk. They gave me a spec sheet both times and it showed factory spec vs. the final setting as well as acceptable range. Everything came back good on both sheets except the caster. Both caster settings were within tolerance, but the cross caster was just a hair out of spec. They said it wasn't adjustable and wouldn't cause it to behave like it is.

I'll post up both sheets tonight if it might help.

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Pulling hard under braking says LCA bushings or toe links to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The toe links were just replaced, I checked to make sure they were straight before installing them too. Wouldn't LCA bushings cause it to bang when I hit bumps? Even with the high tire pressure, the suspension doesn't make any noise. No squeaks or bangs. Unless there's another way to check?

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Discussion Starter #9
They also mentioned that it was maxed out, but I can't think of which setting they were referring to. I'm assuming the right rear camber, since on both visits the final setting still was still positively out of range.

(Suspension geometry is something new to me, so bear with me)

Looking at the numbers, it looks like having excessive camber brings the top of the tire outward pushing the bottom inward. This would be the lower control arm's setting, correct? Assuming this is right so far, it makes me wonder if the car slammed into a curb on the right side perhaps. The LCA might be bent if this were the case.

When I had Cooper RS3-A's on the car, there was almost zero wheelhop.

When I had used Bridgestones with good tread on the car, there was a manageable amount of wheelhop.

Now that I have new Eagle F1's on the car, the wheelhop is insane. It jolts so hard that it sounds like something is about to break, even on wet roads where these tires are supposed to excel. But like courtroom said, the newer tires could just be magnifying the problem that was already there.

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we need to figure out what is wrong with the right rear camber.

Can you get me a close up picture of the bolt head / eccentric of the right rear control arm to frame bolt?

Follow the control arm from the wheel towards the center to the cradle/subframe where it is bolted with an eccentric bolt.
I need the picture from the rear, and needs to be clear and well lit.

Also get a picture of the lower control arm itself from the rear.
 

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I agree. Problem, in the back. Something is not tight enough on the right rear. The car will not bump steer at all with a good alignment. -1 camber all around, 0.1 deg. Toe-in each wheel is perfect for me.
 

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I'm not crazy about the camber all the wall around. I'd like to see the front closer to -.1-.0 if this is a street car. And like the others have said, the RR is screwed up.
 

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I had a problem with TERRIBLE bumpsteer on the rear, it was due to the eccentric bolts for my toe being upside down, which i realized while i was installing my new Pedders bolts, now that problem is all gone. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
As requested: 1366596015342.jpg 1366596040221.jpg


I think this may be the problem below. The LCA looks tweaked, but it would cause the tire to be toed inward based on the angle of the bend near the bolt at the wheel end of the arm. The toe is good on the spec sheet, but they may have had enough adjustment on the toe rod to correct it.
1366596094090.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The LCA is going to need to be replaced anyway, but I'm not sure that's the root issue of the problem.

Does anyone make a control arm that provides additional negative camber adjustment? The only adjustable arms I'm finding only offer positive camber.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well after the debacle of getting the old control arm out here: http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74673Stuck LCA bolt!

I finally got the arm out and a new one in and cam bolt as well. Took it for an alignment and everything was in the green. So the lower control arm was the culprit of the alignment being off in that corner, but it STILL pulls!

I think it may be the crown of the roads because it pulls right in the right lane and left in the left lane. I even tried it on a 4 lane in each direction strip of Woodward which I'd presume to be a pretty flat surface..

It still pulls HARD when I brake hard too. Is this just something I have to deal with, or is there something else I need to be looking at?

Maybe HD tie rods up front?

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Discussion Starter #19
I didn't get a spec sheet this time. This time they took me into the shop and showed me on the monitor; everything was good and in the green. The RR camber was (-.8) I believe. It can't have more than 100 miles on it since the last alignment.

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'in the green' leaves a lot of room for things to not be right.
the green means that it's with in the maximun tolerance, but doesn't mean that it's right.

is the wheel straight?

when did the pulling when braking start originally.
 
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