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Alexander Haig
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Re: Rumors of my demise (G8 that is)

GM delays most future product, r&d in cash crunch

Jamie LaReau
and Robert Sherefkin
Automotive News
October 29, 2008 - 12:01 am ET


DETROIT -- General Motors is postponing nearly all of its spending on product development in 2009 and 2010 -- a cost-cutting move that could delay the introduction of key vehicles such as the Chevrolet Cruze.




The automaker also is cutting spending on engineering, design and r&d, say sources familiar with GM's plans. So far, nothing has been officially canceled, but nearly everything is delayed, the sources say.

"The 2009 stuff that's too late to cancel is coming out, then everything else gets pushed out anywhere between three months and up to a year," said one of the sources. "It's not just capital budget; it's also engineering, design ... everything that would cause money to flow out in 2009."

General Motors is taking drastic action to avoid running out of money sometime next year. With its product delays, GM hopes to save as much as $1.5 billion, said the source.

GM spokesman Dee Allen declined to comment on plans for individual products. "There have been all kinds of speculation," he said. "We've said we're reviewing our portfolio, and we do that as a regular course of business."

Two high-profile vehicles -- the Chevrolet Camaro and the Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid -- are protected from the cutbacks, says one source close to GM. Likewise, the restyled Buick LaCrosse and possibly the Cadillac CTS wagon are still due to market as planned.


Since those products are ready for production, GM would not save much money by delaying them. In addition, the Volt is pivotal to GM's plan to match Toyota Motor Corp. as a technology leader and environmentally conscious corporation.

The LaCrosse is due in spring. The CTS wagon is due for the 2010 model year, but the launch date has not been set.

But GM tentatively will push back the launch of the Chevrolet Cruze, which was supposed to debut in the 2011 model year. That launch will be delayed six months to a year, say sources familiar with GM's plans.

Union members at GM's Lordstown, Ohio, plant, which would build the Cruze, say they have not been told of a holdup.

"Everything I've heard is that we're in the process of moving forward," said Dave Green, president of UAW Local 1714 in Lordstown. "There has been speculation that it would get delayed, but leadership said GM has not notified us of any delay."

Meanwhile, the Chevrolet Malibu sedan was to be restyled and re-engineered in the 2012 model year. But with the cost cutting, the revamped Malibu probably won't debut until the 2013 model year.

GM executives are meeting daily to find ways to shift money out of other things and into key product launches. Said one source: "There's still a lot of fine-tuning, and a lot of it could change."

chiefpontiac said:
Editorial comment.
Although this article does not address any specific product cancellation it can be seen that even safe and secure vehicles such as Malibu are in jeopardy of retaining existing, already dated, platforms and engines. When they cannot see the end of the tunnel, let alone if there is a light on or not, from here then I would still take with a grain of salt the reports that the G8 and SOlstice/Sky next versions will never see light of day. 5 years in today's automotive industry is a lifetime.
 

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G8 Board Lurker
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This is kinda good news and bad. It is good news because if they do cut production on the G8, there will be less on the road.

I just hope the GXP see's atleast 2 years of production so I can pick one up.
 

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Alexander Haig
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Discussion Starter #4
Development money has already been spent on the ST. Maybe they have to tweak some panel alignments but essentially it is already being built with a Holden nose. GXP should have started production now that they are accepting orders from dealers (hybrid process not equal to but incorporates tagging). Camaro hardtop is safe as they are readying Oshawa now for January production. Could mean a delay in the Camaro convertible, except good news isd most of money is spent already on common parts.
 

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well to add to the rumor mill my dealer told me when i was getting GXP info that in 2010 all G8 models will have an available 6m tranny. I hope bout doubt it.
 

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Not to worry, GM just has to cut back until the Chrysler deal with Cerberus is done. Then they pickup $8-12Billion of Chrysler $$$ and make it through another couple of years!:wink2:
 

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Not to worry, GM just has to cut back until the Chrysler deal with Cerberus is done. Then they pickup $8-12Billion of Chrysler $$$ and make it through another couple of years!:wink2:
That merger is a dumb-ass idea. There won't be a Chrysler Corp. in a few years. Before everyone says "good", Chrysler has good people (not at the top), good skills for building cars & trucks, and they haven't had enough time to get the improved models onto the showroom floors. If Chrysler fails, thousands of people will lose their jobs. If Chrysler gets bought (that what this merger really is) & then fails, GM will go down with them. Then, millions will lose their jobs. I'll try not to go off-topic anymore. :D
 

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That merger is a dumb-ass idea. There won't be a Chrysler Corp. in a few years. Before everyone says "good", Chrysler has good people (not at the top), good skills for building cars & trucks, and they haven't had enough time to get the improved models onto the showroom floors. If Chrysler fails, thousands of people will lose their jobs. If Chrysler gets bought (that what this merger really is) & then fails, GM will go down with them. Then, millions will lose their jobs. I'll try not to go off-topic anymore. :D
GM is looking for a way to survive without declaring bankruptcy right after the first of the year. If they can absorb Chrysler and their $$ they can make it to 2010 when the legacy costs will drop off their books, and they will have roughly $1500/vehicle of profit returned to their books. (Not to mention all the employees [about 30,000 has been mentioned] and assets/facilities they wont need with the combined company, that they can rid themselves of to raise $$!) The topic, by the way, is the demise of the G8. If GM fails, no more G8. Thus your opinion of the merger is on topic. Hopefully you are wrong, but on topic!:wink2:
 

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GM is looking for a way to survive without declaring bankruptcy right after the first of the year. If they can absorb Chrysler and their $$ they can make it to 2010 when the legacy costs will drop off their books, and they will have roughly $1500/vehicle of profit returned to their books. (Not to mention all the employees [about 30,000 has been mentioned] and assets/facilities they wont need with the combined company, that they can rid themselves of to raise $$!) The topic, by the way, is the demise of the G8. If GM fails, no more G8. Thus your opinion of the merger is on topic. Hopefully you are wrong, but on topic!:wink2:
But, to kill Chrysler to save GM makes Wagonner & Lutz look like evil people. Hey, it is Halloween. :gr_devil:
 

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But, to kill Chrysler to save GM makes Wagonner & Lutz look like evil people. Hey, it is Halloween. :gr_devil:
Absorb, kill, merge, retire, all means to the same end. Chrysler will no longer exist as an independent car manufacturer. Sad, but necessary evil to keep the strongest alive. Survival of the fittest and all that stuff.:wink2:
 

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Absorb, kill, merge, retire, all means to the same end. Chrysler will no longer exist as an independent car manufacturer. Sad, but necessary evil to keep the strongest alive. Survival of the fittest and all that stuff.:wink2:
Yazza! I, in my usual selfish and self centered way, (You can get away with that after 65). could give a sh*t less! My G8 is the last and only new car I will buy. In addition, I have left written and notarized instructions that my G8 will be buried with me propped behind the wheel and my right foot bolted securely to the loud pedal at WOT! :p
 

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Absorb, kill, merge, retire, all means to the same end. Chrysler will no longer exist as an independent car manufacturer. Sad, but necessary evil to keep the strongest alive. Survival of the fittest and all that stuff.:wink2:
I feel bad for Chrysler. Especially after falling in lust with the new Ram. GM needs to stop half-assing their business or else there won't be a GM for us to buy from. The GXP and/or ST I decide to buy will be my last it looks like as well.
 

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I feel bad for Chrysler. Especially after falling in lust with the new Ram. GM needs to stop half-assing their business or else there won't be a GM for us to buy from. The GXP and/or ST I decide to buy will be my last it looks like as well.
Oh yea of little faith! The Fed will not let GM fail, too many jobs, too big a black eye for the new Demo Pres and Demo Congress (the self appointed defenders/protectors of the unions) to let that happen. GM will absorb Chrysler, get their loans, and continue to produce domestic vehicles that are borderline successful. IMO it will take a complete change of the guard at GM to make it step into the 21st Century and produce the vehicles it has the ability to make. Until that happens, it will continue to stumble along.:pir_flag:
 

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On the contrary, if GM doesn't get the head stinky cheeses replaced, their business won't be gouda. Ok, bad pun I admit. But, if GM doesn't learn from their past mistakes, then they will be in the same grave as Chrysler. They think they can predict a market. It's happened maybe once or twice. Otherwise, they wait for some other company to start the trend & GM just builds a half-assed version with nothing special about it. If they plan to play follow the leader, at least make your version highly competitive in all senses, not just the wallet.
 

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Otherwise, they wait for some other company to start the trend & GM just builds a half-assed version with nothing special about it. If they plan to play follow the leader, at least make your version highly competitive in all senses, not just the wallet.
Ya mean like the G8? Not half-assed, but a take-off of a few different competitors cars for sure. Did they improve upon the original? That, is a matter of opinion, with many saying yes, even without considering price. So have they done the follow-the-leader thing again? If the advent of the ST and hopefully, the SW, is part of the answer. then no, and yes. The GT could be considered a mid level BMW rival, where as the GXP could be considered a M class competitor. The ST has no competition, anywhere that I know of, in this country. IF, and it a big IF, they bring in the wagon, it would be a competitor to the BMW wagon versions. So are they following, or just looking to cash in on a popular variation on the sport sedan family?:huh:
 

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Ya mean like the G8?
No. Many other examples can be shown. The last version (pre-'08) Malibu. The Cobalt/G5 is another. Neither one set the world on fire when they were released. But, prior to their releases, GM had expectations that these would be segment leaders & be all that consumers would want. In fact, the G8 seems to be the reverse of that. Since GM planned for production to stay in Oz, they didn't have their sights set on having class leading sales. This in turn, allows Holden to continue to stick to their quality standards rather than those of GMNA. True, a better RWD sedan & a "hybrid" car/truck may be great for Pontiac, but they are the exception rather than the norm at GM.
 

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No. Many other examples can be shown. The last version (pre-'08) Malibu. The Cobalt/G5 is another. Neither one set the world on fire when they were released. But, prior to their releases, GM had expectations that these would be segment leaders & be all that consumers would want. In fact, the G8 seems to be the reverse of that. Since GM planned for production to stay in Oz, they didn't have their sights set on having class leading sales. This in turn, allows Holden to continue to stick to their quality standards rather than those of GMNA. True, a better RWD sedan & a "hybrid" car/truck may be great for Pontiac, but they are the exception rather than the norm at GM.
Don't forget to add:

1. HHR - came out very late to the retro party compared to PT Cruiser.
2. Camaro - again, very late to the retro party after the Mustang and then the Challenger (sure, not exactly a half-assed attempt, but still, shows that GM wasn't taking the lead on this one)
3. Impala - Well, what can be said about that attempt to keep the Celebrity name alive.
4. Anyone remember the minivans that GM came out with? Crickets?
 

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Don't forget to add:

1. HHR - came out very late to the retro party compared to PT Cruiser.
Yep. When everyone else went retro, GM finally got on the bandwagon.

g8hopeful said:
2. Camaro - again, very late to the retro party after the Mustang and then the Challenger (sure, not exactly a half-assed attempt, but still, shows that GM wasn't taking the lead on this one)
A duely noted comment. And right about GM knowing they had to go all out for this car.

g8hopeful said:
3. Impala - Well, what can be said about that attempt to keep the Celebrity name alive.
I think GM made some changes when the Cleb died & the Lumina appeared. Not revolutionary changes. Only enough as to say they are on different platforms. [sarchastic] That makes the Lumina/Impala much better than the Celebrity.

g8hopeful said:
4. Anyone remember the minivans that GM came out with? Crickets?
Sadly yes, we remember them. But, we are trying to block them out. Our therapist says we are doing well.
 

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Not to worry, GM just has to cut back until the Chrysler deal with Cerberus is done. Then they pickup $8-12Billion of Chrysler $$$ and make it through another couple of years!:wink2:
Guess we should worry now. Merger talks "off" (sure it could be a ploy and negotiating technique but then again they probably have a harder time getting a bail out from the government if they are out there spending money on a merger/acquisition of this type) and burning through way more cash than anyone expected. Even had they gotten Chryslers money it would not have carried them through 2009 at the rate they are going and, or course, without it they will only make it to summer '09 at best. Very concerning to say the least.
 
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