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Sound Insulating/Deadening Project - Starting 1/13

28K views 234 replies 24 participants last post by  Jova007200 
#1 · (Edited)
Howdy, folks. My addictions continue with the work on the car. I just can't stop, can I?

This is a Speaker Install and Sound Deadening Project. I'm going to chronicle the process for you here just in case you want to follow along. (Edit: I originally wasn't going to do the floor. You'll see that I have)

Places I'm addressing right now are:

  • All Doors
  • Kick Panels
  • Rear Seat and Riser
  • Rear Deck
  • Roof
I'll use:

  • Mass Loaded Vinyl (MLV)
  • Closed Cell Foam (CCF)
  • Hydrophobic Melamine Foam (HMF)
  • Rockmat (Cut to size)
  • MDF (for costom fabricated door enclosures) *Edit: Leaving this in here as an idea, but the shape of the door's stamped holes are a challenging shape for MDF. Not using this for this project*
At this time I will not be addressing the trunk space, but that will take place in the somewhat near future. First and Foremost I want to address the cabin.


Speakers to Install are all Polk DB+ Series with the exception of the center dash speaker. That one is still a polk, but it is from the previous (and discontinued) DB series. You can still find them new, but not in as many places.

  • DB-652 Rear Door
  • DB-6502 Front Door and Dash Tweeters
  • DB842DVC Woofers
  • DB351 Center Channel w/ Bass Blocker & Added Resistor (if Required) *Note: If you drive with an amp, you don't need the resistor. You can use the amp's or signal processor's (if applicable) crossover to protect it from low frequencies below it's response range in the place of a bass blocker, but the bass blocker (for the correct frequency) is included with the speaker.
For the Doors, we'll use the deadening material on the inner and outer skin. I'll decouple the speakers from each panel with the ensolite materials that I purchased. I'll also use that behind the speaker to cancel out back waves. The MDF was originally going to be used to cover the stamped holes, but it would be quite complicated and maybe not even doable. Instead, we'll use the MLV here in the place of the moisture barrier. (The cup in the door will present a challenge). It'll then serve as both barrier for moisture and for sound. :) Win Win.

The seat deck, riser, and top deck will have rockmat applied in tiles in several locations, and then we'll be using a layer of CCF and then MLV for full coverage of the seat and riser. The rear deck will just feature some CCF and the rock mat for deadening purposes.

In the roof we'll use the rockmat tiles and then the the melamine foam (HMF). No other materials used there.

I originally was negating the floor because the job would prove difficult, and I said that I could not be convinced.... (I convinced myself in the end......)

Any other areas that need addressing will be addressed through this project, and some of them I will undoubtedly discover after I begin. No doubt I'll realize that the layering in certain spaces will require other modifications. Specifically, I mean the doors. That will be covered throughout this undoubtedly challenging project.

Start date is this Saturday the 13th.


I'd like to thank smwalker for his indirect and unsolicited assistance via his recommendation of the vendor through a thread of his on another forum. Sound Deadening Showdown has a nice materials list, and I ordered much of the materials from them that I didn't already have.

I never consulted him, but I figured an honorable mention was in order since I wouldn't have found the vendor without locating the thread in this forum that then sent me to the other forum. :D
 
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#96 ·
The final sealing is complete (or at least 98% complete). I am fairly sure I may have gotten carried away with some of the final coverage. I may have to make modifications, but we'll see.

Mostly, the front foot well portion of the carpet has the most rigid material, so that is where I expect most of the modifications. I've spent a lot of time making sure to fit the contours as closely as possible. Hopefully, it pays off.

The photos make it look like the material comes out to be flush with the duct, but it doesn't. On top, the central piece just rests there, and the rug should hold it down. I noticed when the rug was in originally, it was bunched up in the middle. We'll see if that impacts the fit.

I'm eager to get it in there for a test fit.


 

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#97 ·
Jova007200, Thanks for taking the time to photograph, upload, and type descriptions,directions etc. I am waiting for you to do the doors. I have done research myself (DIYmobileaudio.) about sound improvements to doors. Someday I hope to, use deadening, mlv, and ccf in doors. Thanks for extensive thread.
 
#98 ·
Hopefully, the doors will be coming up soon. I haven't really taken a look at the door trim to see just how I'll approach it. I was thinking about cutting the MLV pieces using the plastic vapor barriers as a guide. I'll have to use part of the plastic piece for the cup-holders unless I can come up with some sort of custom cut surround...

Soon, the reassembly will begin (to a point). I've got to take care of the back seat area and the top deck.

The carpet is now in. Some tweaking is needed, but I should be able to get everything back together more efficiently. I can't go too quickly, though. I have wiring I need to run first... I also forgot about the signal wiring before I put the carpet in.. Eh... oops.

Anyways, I have some gluing to do under the carpet because it separated. I guess crawling around on the carpet before I removed it separated some of the insulation. I glued some of it back together, but have some pieces left.

 

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#99 ·
Before you put that headliner back in, make sure you wire two extra wires from the front dome/maps lights into the four pin connector for the rear.

Currently, only two pins in the connector are being used since the G8 uses a single dome light in the rear. There is a part (P/N 92249712) that replicates the front dome+map lights. This uses two extra pins (LED backlight control and another courtesy lamp switch (for when the buttons are pushed)).

I'll post more pictures this evening but as wired from stock, the new parts works just like the original part, except the switches won't work because I haven't wired everything in yet. I will once I get my headliner relined (soon).



The connector (ignore the color difference (different part number) and yes, there are two extra pins; they're just not visible from this angle):
 

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#100 ·
An interesting idea. I hadn't planned on doing anything with that light, and so this wasns't even a consideration.

You just splice with the front wires, yes?
 
#101 · (Edited)
The service manual isn't always correct but you'll basically want to extend pin 5 (0.5 (20 AWG) Orange - Circuit 1732 - Courtesy Lamp Supply Voltage) and pin 6 (0.3 (22 AWG) Yellow - Circuit 6817 - LED Backlight Dimming Control) from the front 6 pin connector to the rear 4 pin connector in pin 3 and pin 4, respectively. Pin 3 is top left and pin 4 is top right. That's with the connector facing you. For more clarification: Pin 1 is the bottom left and pin 2 is the bottom right.



Of course you'll want to test it first but if they're wrong, you can always swap pins 3 and 4 since pin 1 and pin 2 work correctly [and don't need to be changed] as I tested it myself.

The terminals are 39-00-0038 (reel) or 39-00-0039 (bag). The differences are highlighted in parenthesis. I found 39-00-0038 to be cheaper; 10 cents a terminal at DigiKey, $3.75 USPS shipping.

One solution would be to terminate/crimp two separate wires into a single pin/terminal and run the extra wires to the rear. Or you could splice into the existing wire. I think I'll go with the former route to avoid splicing. The terminals will accept as large as an 18 AWG (0.823 mm^2) wire so crimping two 20 AWG (0.518 mm^2) and two 22 AWG (0.326 mm^2) wires should be okay.

Terminals (I'm ordering 4 or more in case I mess up. 2 at minimum if going the splice route): https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/molex-llc/39-00-0038/WM2501CT-ND/467978

EDIT: The tool to remove the terminals: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/molex-llc/11-03-0044/WM9918-ND/210947 ($21.38)

Amazon ($20.36 free same day shipping): https://www.amazon.com/Molex-11-03-0044-Connector-Accessories-Extraction/dp/B00GOIY1NE
 

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#102 ·
Or you could check out an electric supply outlet and see what kind of connectors you can find. Ideal Electric makes a lot of different connectors.

Something similar to this, but for use with stranded wire. That way, you're using the circuit in the same way without having to worry about wires popping out.

If I do go this route, something like that is what I'd use.
 
#103 ·
I'd splice with solder over using that kind of connector. This connector is quite bulky and is quite useless for stranded wire (which is what we're using). It's great for solid wire.

I'm simply going to remove the two terminals in the 6 pin connector in the front dome/map lights. Cut them, strip them, strip the two new wires, crimp the new and the old together with the new terminals, and then crimp the new wires to the rear with the new terminals. Then insert them in the existing connector in the rear.
 
#104 · (Edited)
Please note that I said "similar." :) :D
 
#105 · (Edited)
Ok, so today I took care of the center console reassembly.

As it turns out, it fits just fine. However, whereas before it moved around somewhat freely, now it is a big more "snug" in there. Still, the MLV + CCF material mostly just filed in the gap. So, in short, if you're doing the whole MLV floor treatment, there should be no worries about it interfering with the console.

You'll have more issues with bunching of the carpet in a few spots. (Need to get a glue syringe...)

Also, you'll notice the material where the ducts interconnect looks different than the open cell foam used originally. I simply went out to the hardware store and got some closed cell insulation foam tape. Lowes and Home Depot both carry it, and it's handy for the interconnects. Simply add it where previous material was. Just be careful, it seems to crack easily in this application. It's normally used on flat surfaces and isn't meant to be folded. That isn't a huge deal, but you want it to be air tight (not pressure wise, just to keep it from leaking like a sieve).



I ran the wires for the speaker signals. I ended up running a loop forward and around the duct, then down along the floor at the tunnel. It snakes around, crosses over the floor rail, and then follows along and goes along the side of the back seat. I did remember to mark one. :D

Each jacketed bundle of wires has 5 individual signal wires. I'll have to split a channel up. I also decoupled the part of the wire that touches the plastic duct up front with some insulation tape just in case. There's plenty of wire to get into the trunk once it's ready. Edit: I used insulation tape to decouple, but in retrospect that was a bad idea. I'm going to redo it with cloth wire loom to keep it as thin as possible.



 

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#106 ·
So, the conclusion for the day has the console nearly complete. I am going to leave it like this while I take on other parts of the reassembly. For starters, the headliner will come soon. I've got to get the melamine foam in, and I'm quite sure that's going to mean I've got to remove those four pads on top of the headliner. They compress easily, but it may not be sufficient.

It occurred to me that the sun shades aren't going to look right with the new headliner material, so I think I've got to take them in to have them recovered, too.

Anyways, I like how the dash looks now.

 

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#117 ·
...I've got to get the melamine foam in, and I'm quite sure that's going to mean I've got to remove those four pads on top of the headliner. They compress easily, but it may not be sufficient...
Jova,

I found that removal of the front two felt pads was necessary, but the back two didn't seem to get in the way.

Also, good luck in re-attaching the sun visor clips correctly. The retaining pin does not want to seat properly. Very frustrating.
 
#107 ·
Really like the look of the screen, radio/AC controls.
Especially like the fact that the screen is raised up on the dash for easier viewing.
One of my very few pet peeves with the G8 is the stock screen location is set so low to look at the time/info your eyes are off the road for to long IMHO.
Don't know about the round vents....guess I'm just used to the square vents....
 
#108 ·
The round vents look better in person and up close. :) The screen height is definitely a lot better. I like the change overall, it's nice.

As I recall, screen height was the reason the G8 never came with a NAV option. The location of the screen was too low to pass US Regs, and I can see why. I'm going to have to relearn the radio functions all over again, which should add some "newness" to the car. :D

I'm getting some vinyl samples soon, but I'm not sure if I'm going to wrap the trim pieces or not. Whether I go forward with the vinyl depends on the ability to wrap all pieces. I don't want to have any rogue silver pieces. So, we'll see once I get the samples.
 
#109 · (Edited)
Wired up and connected to the head unit. Got myself a notebook with the wire conversions marked. By the way, some of the pin-out diagrams have the Center Outputs on #9 and #13 bot labeled as (+). #9 is (-), and #13 is (+).

These are called "Posi Connects" and are the best of all available options in my opinion. *When considering connectors; not relative to solder. They hold the wires together quite nicely.

The regular head unit wires look like they're 22 Gauge wires. Those go straight to the main speakers. That's great for the stock speakers, but not great for higher wattage speakers with supporting amplifiers. So obviously, you can't use those for the new speakers.

The 5 Wire bundles are convenient. There were no 10-Conductor options that were either cost effective or appropriate for the application. There's a 9-Conductor option, but that obviously doesn't help if you're using the center channel. :) These bundles are 18AWG per wire.


 

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#110 ·
Wired up and connected to the head unit. Got myself a notebook with the wire conversions marked. By the way, some of the pin-out diagrams have the Center Outputs on #9 and #13 bot labeled as (+). #9 is (-), and #13 is (+).

These are called "Posi Connects" and are the best of all available options in my opinion. Holds the wires together quite nicely.

The regular head unit wires look like they're 22 Gauge wires. Those go straight to the main speakers. That's great for the stock speakers, but not great for higher wattage speakers with supporting amplifiers. So obviously, you can't use those for the new speakers.

The 5 Wire bundles are convenient. There were no 10-Conductor options that were either cost effective or appropriate for the application. There's a 9-Conductor option, but that obviously doesn't help if you're using the center channel. :) These bundles are 18AWG per wire.


Yikes!

Solder + heat-shrink...

Great progress nonetheless!
 
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#111 ·
Hmm. I didn't consider soldering these together. That's a good thought. In retrospect, I'm not sure I'm confident in my cold soldering abilities in the space provided inside the car. :D

Though, these connectors do hold the wires very tightly together. I'm going to shrink wrap the individual wire pairs, and then the speaker pairs (4 wires total). Then I'll use some small zip ties to keep it tidy after using the cloth wire loom tape. It is rather rough looking right now.

All wires were pull tested and if found not fully seated they were redone to ensure that they were fully seated.

Less labor intensive, but still a good connection (presumably). :)
 
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#113 ·
Hmmm.... I do have that "NASA Soldering" procedure saved to the laptop at home. As in, the kind of soldering that NASA would certify for rocket launches LOL :D

I'll consider it. It's just tight in there, and I only have a little bit of space to work with even with the seat out.

Thanks for the persistence. :) I'll do my due diligence on that. It'll be a while before I close everything up anyways.
 
#114 ·
That's a pretty ambitious project you have going there Jova. Appreciate the very detailed thread along with the variety of pictures and material used to accomplish said goals. Hopefully, the results will be to your satisfaction which makes the journey all the more worthwhile.
 
#115 ·
Thank you.

I appreciate you and everybody else that has taken the time to read along and comment/discuss. I take a good bit of pride in my projects, so it's nice to have a good outlet for it with good discussion. :)

It's also nice when folks are persistent enough to try and suggest things that I might have overlooked. I'm quite stubborn with my methods. :D
 
#119 ·
Images as promised:

If I do this, I suppose I'll have to get the front upper console with the map lights, too.
 
#122 ·
Look at the windshield facing side of the holder. There is a plastic peg that you can pry out with a needle/pin or a very small flat head screwdriver. It's like a miniature beam that holds the spring loaded piece in that holds the visor. Once you pull that peg, the plastic part of the holder will drop out.

Just gotta be careful not to lose the spring and pegs.

That metal piece comes out, but it won't come out with the plastic.

I learned that after busting them. :D
 
#124 ·
Also be careful that you don't push those metal pieces up into the stamped steel, as there is no way out but the hole they're mounted in. I accidentally did on the driver's side it took about 30 minutes with a magnet and a hooked pick trying to get the son of a bitch twisted around and popped back into place correctly.
 
#127 ·
Without having the headliner out, could someone explain why our headliners have so much stuff on them?

What are those white plastic pieces for?

G8:




vs. Commodore:






 

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#128 ·
I don't honestly know, but it looks like it has to do with the rail airbags and US Regs? That's just a guess. It seems that it would really add some reinforcement for those that hit their heads on the liner on the way out.

I'm sure there is a logical reason beyond those two possibilities.
 
#131 ·
That is true, and I considered that. My guess was based on the possibility that additional rigidity was needed to ensure that the airbag deploys correctly, and if not just a little extra reinforcement.

Since the Australian version doesn't seem to have it, I was thinking along the lines of safety regulation differences; hence the airbag.

Still, it's only an educated guess on my part. :)
 
#133 ·
Yeah, that's what I mean. US Reg are pretty stringent where Auto safety is concerned.
 
#134 · (Edited)
So, the rain got in the way today at about 3 O'Clock. It was supposed to just be cloudy today with no rain. Less than 10% chance it said. I got a decent amount of work done, but not as much as I would have liked. I am without a full progress picture since I had to frantically put my stuff away... :D

Anyways, I got right to work by replacing the insulation tape I used on the wires with some proper wire loom. It's cloth, so it will decouple. I wrapped both individually, and then secured each end with some vinyl tape. I'll use this wire loom for other exposed wires that I need to route, such as the mic wire for the Bluetooth.





If you read carefully a while back when I started, I referred to the re-use of these wheel well covers in some fashion. A short while after that I spotted them for this use, and now I've finally gotten to the point where it was needed. I am showing here the MLV material, but I used it for the deadening material as well. It worked perfectly, but for the moment I can't really show off the MLV pieces. They fit right in there like a glove. :D






Here is the pad I cut using the template piece. I went for the gusto with the wheel well. Overkill at it's finest in perhaps one of the few places on the entire interior that's worth it with very limited extra weight of material. The cutouts and curvature of the pieces make for an excellent cover. There are really no gaps in the deadening material.

 

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#135 · (Edited)
I covered the rest of the back seat area selectively. I will likely add a few more pieces the next time I do some work, but this was the stopping point for the RockMat today. I selected each spot by the knuckle method.... As in, I knocked on each spot to find those that resonated the most. There are two spots on the bottom (round stamps) that I'll probably apply some material.

The 2nd image is the full coverage from the front so that you can see both wheel wells all covered up. There are some other spaces I could put some matting, but I'm not sure. This feels like it is enough.





Finally, this is the last sequence of photo I have. The rain interrupted right after I placed the seat MLV pad down. I'm proud of the cutout pattern... :D

Anyways, one thing I always try to keep in mind is serviceability. In this case, the various wires for the fuel pump and maybe some sensors. The harness would have been hidden and inaccessible. So, I cut out a flap and glued a piece of MLV with Velcro on it just in case. The likelihood of ever touching that harness is quite slim, but one never does know. LOL



 

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#136 ·
So, that was pretty much a wrap for the day. I got the lower part of the seat covered, and I also got the MLV wheel well covers prepared. I started covering the one side when it started raining.

On another note, I have to take the headliner back to the upholstery shop because the parts by the grip handles seem to have come off. It had to have been like that when I picked it up. I noticed it when I got home, and I finally got around to calling them about it. They said they'd make it right, so it's no big deal.

Anyways, I'll snap a photo of the lower seat MLV cover next time I'm working on it. :)
 
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