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If I were to get a tune for the G8 on a second PCM and did the swap anytime it would have to go in for service would they have anyway of knowing?? I know I could just keep reflashing anytime I would need to, but I hear they can see if its been altered? Correct?? Whats the best way to do this?
 

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If I were to get a tune for the G8 on a second PCM and did the swap anytime it would have to go in for service would they have anyway of knowing?? I know I could just keep reflashing anytime I would need to, but I hear they can see if its been altered? Correct?? Whats the best way to do this?

If you got a second ECM, you'd need to have the dealer do a "case relearn" on the second ECM, so they'd know anyway.

And if you got a stealth tune, even though "the numbers match", the dealer could still tell that the g8 that's in for service is tuned and they can still void the powertrain warrantee, because no factory g8 can scratch gears, and most if not all aftermarket tunes allow you to scratch at least 1-2 on WOT. Not that the dealer would be going WOT in your car, but if it were a factory TCM tune, it would be floppy and sloppy just like it was from the factory. Any tech who knows about g8's would be able to tell easily.
 

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It seems the best answer is to flash back to stock before a dealer visit. Last I read the general consensus was that the g8's pcm doesn't have a flash counter or it isn't enabled like it is on the camaro. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
 

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Unless the tune actually causes the damage to the car the dealer cannot deny warranty claims.
 

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Unless the tune actually causes the damage to the car the dealer cannot deny warranty claims.
If the dealer finds the tune, he most definately can void the entire powertrain warrantee. "Depends on the dealer".

It is true that the flash counter is NOT enabled on the G8 ECM's, in contrast to the Camaro SS's where it IS enabled.

There are other ways that the dealer can find if the car has been recently flashed, so if you grenade your engine and "tune it back to stock" before you call the tow truck, they still can tell.

If you wanna play, you gotta be prepared to play.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
If the dealer finds the tune, he most definately can void the entire powertrain warrantee. "Depends on the dealer".

It is true that the flash counter is NOT enabled on the G8 ECM's, in contrast to the Camaro SS's where it IS enabled.

There are other ways that the dealer can find if the car has been recently flashed, so if you grenade your engine and "tune it back to stock" before you call the tow truck, they still can tell.

If you wanna play, you gotta be prepared to play.

So I would ask again. If we just replaced the PCM back and forth as needed how long does the relearn take so they wouldn't notice? Or what can be done?? Thanks
 

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Holy incorrect info thread Batman!
(Most of this is here on the site)

Unless the tune actually causes the damage to the car the dealer cannot deny warranty claims.
1. GM will void your powertrain warranty if they find an aftermarket calibration. There's been dealer notices to this effect. I know this seems counter to the MMA, but GM will do it and its gonna be up to you, your lawyer, your experts to debate GM..good luck with that.

2. There is no flash counter enabled on the G8s.

3. If they data log certain params (say shift points), a stealth tune won't save you. If they actually download the cal..stealth tune won't help you. To be fair most dealers won't go that far, but who knows in the future.

so if you grenade your engine and "tune it back to stock" before you call the tow truck, they still can tell.
If you're referring to the fact that the emissions and other tests are all "incomplete" that happens under many other circumstances (emissions OBD code for example) that will reset all those. They aren't necessarily an indicator of being flashed.

So having a second PCM is a good option and/or reflashing is a good option. Also having a good dealer relationship is crucial as well. Demod as much as possible as well giving them less cause to look.
 

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Like most things in life, they will bully you if it serves their needs. I am a practicing attorney and lifelong tuner and I am confident unless the tune causes the damage (which of course can sometimes be debated) they will have to honor the warranty. In fact many dealers offer like BMW and Audi will tune cars themselves.

Of course, it is always a hassle so I understand the risk.
 

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Like most things in life, they will bully you if it serves their needs. I am a practicing attorney and lifelong tuner and I am confident unless the tune causes the damage (which of course can sometimes be debated) they will have to honor the warranty. In fact many dealers offer like BMW and Audi will tune cars themselves.

Of course, it is always a hassle so I understand the risk.
That seems right. I recall reading text on the G8 sales brochure very carefully, and several times, before I bought. It said warranty could be voided for any claims deriving from problems caused by aftermarket products. It did not say the addition of aftermarket products voids warranty. This is consistent with language at Audi, where Suncoast Motorsports, a dealer in Sarasota, FL, does indeed install aftermarket products including a tune (or "chip" in their parlance). My GM dealer in Punta Gorda, FL, was happy to install high performance aftermarket rotors.

As an attorney are you familiar with the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act? Doesn't it affirm what we're saying, i.e. that warranty can't be voided unless the problem is caused by an aftermarket mod?
 

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Again, the legal and the practical do not always mix. If, and this is always the big question, if they can correlate the claim to the mod, they can deny. If they can't they simply are full of crap. There is a grey area which is generally where most lawyers dwell. If you blow your engine and they see the tune they will likely use that as an initial claim to avoid the warranty. You would then have to prove they were wrong, which would cost substantial sums, which sums would not be recoverable.

Its low risk but still something that everyone needs to be aware of before tuning. I would also talk with your tuner as they can be an ally in a warranty fight to help show that the tune could not have caused the left wheel to fall off.
 

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My point was this:

"When alteration to the GM-released engine or transmission control calibrations occurs, it subjects
powertrain and driveline components (engine, transmission, transfer case, driveshaft and rear
axle) to stresses that were not tested by General Motors. It is because of these unknown
stresses, and the potential to alter reliability, durability and emissions performance, that GM has
adopted a policy to cancel any remaining warranty coverage to the powertrain and driveline
components whenever the presence of a non-GM (aftermarket) calibration is confirmed - even if
the non-GM control module calibration is subsequently removed."

Basically if GM catches it you're voided. Not having a flash counter helps though
 

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Agreed. Very good info on this thread.
 

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JMO but if they dig deep enough and you have done anything they dont like, they can and will find a way to void that portion of your warranty. Thats why once I started, I knew the only thing I would still have under warranty in 2 years would be the radio!!
 

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Years ago an Audi dealer blamed a "check engine light" problem on my tune (aka aftermarket "chip" to boost power). Tech said they could find nothing else wrong, so it must be the chip. I then visited a former GM engineer with a laptop who now has his own shop. He plugged into my car, discovered a vacuum leak due to MAF filter failure, and printed out that result. I took the printout to the dealer, whose tech said "Hmmmm" and agreed to check further. In the end they replaced the MAF filter under warranty.

But that wasn't really the end. About six months later Audi extended its factory warranty to 70K miles on all MAF filters for my model and year (2001 S4). That's not a common outcome for warranty challenges, of course, and I'm sure mine was not the only complaint. But it shows that an independent opinion can be very useful.
 

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Has anyone ACTUALLY had their warranty voided from a tune? I am having serious issues with my car and I took it to the dealer. I don't have a tune, but hypothetically I'd like to know because the shop manager was talking pretty serious about not fixing my car if they found any changes in my software.

I threw all sorts of codes when they scanned it today. MAF, cylinders not firing, and something else. I should have made them print them all out for me.
 

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thechemist ... it depends on the dealership but if you blow an engine they have to send your ecu to gm for the warranty to actually be used a friend of mine works for a gm dealership in new orleans and he said that small stuff like intake exhaust headers like that will only void the warrant on that item unless it proves that the upgrade cause the problem but if you have a dod delete cam or n20 all of your warranty is voided for sure
 
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